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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#261

Post by enriquto »

thephyber wrote: post #240
enriquto wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether? I do not have a smartphone and my life is alright, but I was not suggesting that. You can certainly have a smartphone that is not controlled by neither Google nor Apple. For example, by installing an OS like LineageOS, or even some "freer" stuff that is out there.

In a tech crowd like HN, I don't think that's a reasonable solution for most people. App ecosystems have network effects. Do your {bank, 2FA vendor, paycheck vendor, retirement vendor, etc} all support apps for LineageOS? Additionally, the number of tech jobs which support those smartphones, their apps, testing websites on smartphone browsers, and the related marketing all require many of us to participate in the cor…

If somebody is able to take these compromises it is certainly senior software engineers. And yes, you can install any android app on lineageos, even if it does not have google services enabled.

I have a lot of trouble to force my mom (nearly computer illiterate) to live without google and similar stuff. But I bully mercilessly my co-workers for that. At least they agreed to use jitsi instead of zoom, so that's something

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#262

Post by jonny_eh »

ghostwriter wrote: post #249
jonny_eh wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the case of iOS, you put a banner on a website saying "Buy a similar $1K Android instead"?

Most of the iOS/Android software could be run in a modern browser and be accessble from any device that speaks HTTP.

Not an email client like Hey, since it depends on notifications, which Apple doesn't support in PWAs.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#263

Post by jonny_eh »

RandomBacon wrote: post #213
jonny_eh wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the case of iOS, you put a banner on a website saying "Buy a similar $1K Android instead"?

A $100 Android can run a modern browser.

So tell a user of an iPhone 11 Pro Max to get a $100 Android phone to use Hey?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#264

Post by sepiatone »

evilduck wrote: post #242
YayamiOmate wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how you define market. Apple has control over 100% of ios apps. I doubt ms had 90% of consumer electronics market or even os.

Walmart has 100% monopoly over their store space. Verizon has 100% monopoly over what can connect to their network. Google has a monopoly over the Play Store. Cows have a monopoly over milk production. At which point does this argument stop working? > I doubt ms had 90% of consumer electronics market or even os. You should probably look that up then, instead of "doubting": https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-c…

Yes, but Walmart cannot stop another supermarket from opening in the same area, Verizon cannot stop you from bringing another phone to their network. Android allows other stores. Cows? Oh wait, you've got me there.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#265

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

learc83 wrote: post #226
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really comparing these two? Apple has nowhere near market dominance, in fact, they are currently in second place. IE had a much larger control of the market.

If your market segment is customers who are willing to pay for a high end email service, Apple's share of that customer segment is probably much greater than 50%. Large enough that not offering an iOS app will cripple your business.

Sounds like a bad business model to me.

That market segment exists because of the walled garden - remove it, and it no longer exists.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#266

Post by smnrchrds »

ghostwriter wrote: post #239
smnrchrds wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an Apple device. I put my money where my mouth is. But I am sure that some of the services I am buying are more expensive because of the Apple tax and I am paying Apple tax anyway. Bad taste in my mouth is not going to accomplish anything. Simply not buying an Apple device does not accomplish anything either. Speaking out, raising awareness, asking for regulations, etc. is the only way to accomplish anyt…

> But I am sure that some of the services I am buying are more expensive because of the Apple tax and I am paying Apple tax anyway. Imagine how much more you could save if companies wouldn't have to include corporate tax burden into prices of their products. And what if you were exempt from income tax too? Just a food for thought.

I do benefit from corporate an income taxes, in the form of services from the government. I also have a say in them, via elections. What equivalent benefits and voice do I have regarding Apple tax?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#267

Post by root_axis »

thephyber wrote: post #238
root_axis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How?

In any free/freemium product/service, your attention is your primary currency (your wallet and your participation in the network effect are secondary). Marketing to HN viewers happens when a funded company announces hiring.

How does that translate into support for google?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#268

Post by ariwilson »

Joeri wrote: post #220
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

In fairness to Hey, they didn't plan to be in this situation. They thought they did everything apple wanted them to, and they spent years building this service, only to then find out apple won't allow it. If you're going to exclude all potential products where you have to go through apple to be a major player (given the competition), you're excluding most of the software market. Maybe developers don't really have a c…

Google tolerates exactly the behavior Hey wants for its app.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#269

Post by jonny_eh »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #224
jonny_eh wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple may own a smaller share of the pie, but it's still significant enough that lacking iOS support can kill a business.

Lots of things can kill a business. Anti-competitive practices are made for the goal of reducing competition. But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike. Just because your business model failed doesn't mean the system is broken or monopolistic.

> But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike.

No one's advocating ending the App Store. Just changing the rules to allow for more competition.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#270

Post by jonny_eh »

nemothekid wrote: post #95
jonny_eh wrote: post #30

> The Solution for Consumers > Stop buying iPhones There's the problem with this argument. Consumers are suffering, but don't realize it. The lack of competition, and the increased cost to developers, are depriving consumers of innovative products like Hey, but they don't know it. You can't expect consumer to know when they buy a phone, that it will cause a future company to fail to launch an innovative new product.…

Please. You can argue it's bad for developers, but saying it's bad for consumers is unsubstantiated and just an appeal to emotion. Whether or nor other not the cut is fair, Apple has done an amazing job running the app store - as well as the broader platform in delivering a platform used by millions that is both free from malware and spyware.

> Apple has done an amazing job running the app store

It can be true that they've run a great app store, but also true that some aspects of it are bad for developers and consumers.

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