Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

rudism.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 333 posts

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#101

Post by blattimwind »

codemac wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I think that's exactly the point and it even applies to Macbooks: Apple just makes some pretty average laptops with poor price-performance ratio (even in the allegedly-high-end segment) and they clearly don't have a monopoly or even significant market share [1] in that category. Apple is just somewhat unique in that there is a very vocal minority of people who have decided that they only ever want to use Apple laptops (some Thinkpad users are similar), and of course Apple has a 100 % monopoly on Apple laptops, obviously. Viewed through this lens a lot of the coverage of Mac hardware makes a lot more sense; it never was about rational decision making.

[1] Apple owns less than 10 % of the laptop market.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#102

Post by diffctx99 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #72
diffctx99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not a stakeholder for buying a computer. You seem to have a very confused view of the consumer role legally and historically. Giving them money for a product does not give you a real voice. Argue for that first. Otherwise you may as well argue you’re a stakeholder to a tree.

We are stakeholders in our role as citizens of democratic governments.

If holding a giant private corporation accountable is the battle you want to take before the government, aside from all the other problems society faces, go for it.

I’d never be caught dead complaining about how I “got screwed over” by entering an arrangement I knew about up front.

I would complain about government deciding the way the world worked decades before I was born as if that’s how it must work forever.

You emit whatever syntax your limbic system pushes your cortex to supply motor agency to, what’s useful inside your little bubble.

I’ll argue in mine. Aside from time/place of our body, it’s all we can do anyway.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#103

Post by smt88 »

Users can stop using Apple with minimal consequences.

Many businesses can't. Apple puts tolls around users, and people think the pricing model is unfair.

That's what this uproar is about. It has nothing to do with consumers beyond the fact that consumers see how unfair the pricing model is.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#104

Post by FakeRemore »

enriquto wrote: post #46
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Moreover, for people who are not citizens of the USA (the large majority of the people!), there's no other clear course of action.

> On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem.

Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#105

Post by chrisco255 »

codemac wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I'm not saying the answer is to break them up, but clearly as was shown with Microsoft in the 90s, they could be forced to allow competition on their devices, like Microsoft had to allow for different search engines on their browsers and different default browsers. Apple could be forced to allow alternative app stores or to stop dragging their feet on PWA features or any other number of reasonable regulations like that.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#106

Post by pathseeker »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #36
lordleft wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. There's a false dichotomy here. You can use a product, and as a stakeholder demand change. Refraining from using the product entirely is one way to achieve that, but it's not the only way. Many products evolve because of user-feedback.

> Many products evolve because of user-feedback. And regulation. See GDPR and CCPA.

Yes, but those two examples don't have a particularly great track record. Regulation tends to be a very blunt hammer that might only partially address the problem while introducing a bunch of others (e.g. cookie banners).

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#107

Post by specialist »

What's the monopolistic case against Apple? Is Apple anticompetitive?

Here's my grievances, but I don't know if any aspects are actually monopolistic.

Are they competing against their own partners? Their stock apps have remained vanilla enough that there seems to be enough oxygen for alternatives for premium and power users.

They've definitely done monopsony. Business strategy wise, they've been wicked clever. It's always made me uncomfortable. And I'm pretty grumpy their control of the supply chain doesn't permit third party repairs. I get that they're pulling out all the stops combatting counterfeiters and fraud, which is easily pro-consumer, but there's got to be a balance.

I've always felt their 30% cut from App Store is excessive, unfair. But I don't know what a reasonable cut would be. Cost of doing business plus reasonable margin?

Pay to play schemes, like search ads and paid placement, are complete bullshit. Aka payola. But is that monopolistic?

All the "marketplaces" need the rule of law. Transparency, accountability, fair and impartial courts, appeals processes. This applies to apps, content, personas. No one entity can be allowed be legislator, police, judge, jury, and executioner. This is the biggest apparent conflict of interest, anti-competitive, anti-consumer, anti-democratic behavior of all these "marketplace" hosts, Apple included.

I'm still pissed off about the wage fixing. Sharing the bounty more fairly, broadly would diffuse a lot of the festering resentment.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#108

Post by wisemanwillhear »

> The idea that they have a “monopoly” seems patently ridiculous to me. A monopoly over what? Their own brand of computing devices that they are the sole manufacturers of? Operating systems for which they are the sole developers and maintainers?

I'm not sure where I fall on this, but I feel this is less direct than some people make it sound. I can also see the argument that the iOS phone has become it's own market segment. It might be a bit of stretch to make this comparison, but we don't just a have a market segment for electronic communication devices, we break that down further. Why can't the smart phone market be broken down further as well?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#109

Post by 13415 »

buo wrote: post #74
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

What do you mean? I don't use Apple or Google products and I use technology every day.

What mobile phone and which operating system for it do you use, if I may ask?
Post reply on HN