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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#271

Post by evilduck »

sepiatone wrote: post #264
evilduck wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart has 100% monopoly over their store space. Verizon has 100% monopoly over what can connect to their network. Google has a monopoly over the Play Store. Cows have a monopoly over milk production. At which point does this argument stop working? > I doubt ms had 90% of consumer electronics market or even os. You should probably look that up then, instead of "doubting": https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-c…

Yes, but Walmart cannot stop another supermarket from opening in the same area, Verizon cannot stop you from bringing another phone to their network. Android allows other stores. Cows? Oh wait, you've got me there.

You sure about that? Small town businesses have lamented Walmart moving in for ages, Verizon can _absolutely_ prevent another phone from joining their network, they even charge activation fees on top of it all. And Android _is_ the alternative store if you don't like shopping on iOS, and the monopoly holder to boot. I can't run .ipa files on Android either, why can't we sue Google for not supporting that SDK, since they're a smartphone OS monopoly holder?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#272

Post by thephyber »

root_axis wrote: post #267
thephyber wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any free/freemium product/service, your attention is your primary currency (your wallet and your participation in the network effect are secondary). Marketing to HN viewers happens when a funded company announces hiring.

How does that translate into support for google?

If you spend money or attention on a site that pays Google as a vendor, that is quite obviously indirect support of Google.

Perhaps we are just quibbling about which definition of the word "support"? In which case I agree that there is one definition of support in which you are right and another in which your parent is right.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#273

Post by rdiddly »

rdiddly wrote: post #143

...Apple stepped in and essentially said "Nah, fuck that, you either implement in-app subscriptions in your app and give us our 30% or you can go suck an egg"... For the record they actually said https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080/photo/1 ...but thanks for translating it into mid-oughts hip-hopper mixed with 1940s farmer/GI/zoot-suiter!

No, a paraphrase bears a burden of being better than the original in some way, otherwise just link to the original. Brevity is usually the default improvement being sought, but ideally there would also be honesty, or maybe even, dare we hope, eloquence - perhaps the use of some kind of metaphor or other dimension that makes clear the meaning of the original in a way that's better than the original itself. Translating into young-person conformist speech patterns like "nah" and "fuck that" doesn't count, because everybody already understands Apple's non-hip way of saying it. And then it turns suddenly from hip and nowish, to talking about sucking eggs, which hasn't been uttered since everybody's grandparents gave up poultry farming and moved to the city after the war. That's the clue that it's a disingenuous characterization of the original, which tends to be the case almost every time anyone says "So basically you're saying..." on the internet. Maybe this was an attempt at satire and I just got whooshed?

On the plus side the paraphrase did achieve brevity, and clarity (at least when compared to Apple's sugarcoating and contortion).

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#275

Post by RandomBacon »

jonny_eh wrote: post #263
RandomBacon wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $100 Android can run a modern browser.

So tell a user of an iPhone 11 Pro Max to get a $100 Android phone to use Hey?

If they want to use an Android-only app. Just like I would have to buy a $400 iPhone if I want to use an iOS-only app.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#276

Post by learc83 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #265
learc83 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your market segment is customers who are willing to pay for a high end email service, Apple's share of that customer segment is probably much greater than 50%. Large enough that not offering an iOS app will cripple your business.

Sounds like a bad business model to me. That market segment exists because of the walled garden - remove it, and it no longer exists.

That makes no sense. Apple didn't create the market segment, but because those people choose to use iPhone, you can't sell them an email service that doesn't work on iPhone.

If 80% of people making more than $100k a year use iPhones and Apple disappeared, the market segment of people making more than $100k a year wouldn't disappear.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#277

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #269
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things can kill a business. Anti-competitive practices are made for the goal of reducing competition. But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike. Just because your business model failed doesn't mean the system is broken or monopolistic.

> But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike. No one's advocating ending the App Store. Just changing the rules to allow for more competition.

Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them.

There's no problem with the rules. people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple, who is an easy target. A big baddie.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#278

Post by learc83 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #223
robert_foss wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather say they have complete market dominance. People don't buy phones based on which apps are available for them. And since no alternative stores are available for Apple devices, you have no choice but to pay the Apple tax.

There is an alternative - Android. You aren't forced to pay the Apple tax, there is a far, far more popular alternative there. If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive. This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions.

>If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive.

You can "extend" any argument to an absurd extreme.

>This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions.

It's more like if Toyota installed a radio that blocked transmission of all radio shows that didn't pay a percent of advertising revenue to Toyota.

If they did that did that, people would complain and regulation would be an entirely possible, even likely outcome.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#279

Post by jonny_eh »

RandomBacon wrote: post #275
jonny_eh wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tell a user of an iPhone 11 Pro Max to get a $100 Android phone to use Hey?

If they want to use an Android-only app. Just like I would have to buy a $400 iPhone if I want to use an iOS-only app.

I fail to see how this is good for consumers.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#280

Post by jonny_eh »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #277
jonny_eh wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike. No one's advocating ending the App Store. Just changing the rules to allow for more competition.

Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them. There's no problem with the rules. people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple, who is an easy target. A big baddie.

> Changing the rules hurts all developers who already abide by them.

I don't follow the logic here.

> people are just entitled and think the only reason their adtech shovelware is failing is because of Apple

If Hey was funded by shovelware ads it would have been approved by Apple. Instead it's funded by a $99 subscription, which the developer refused to give $32 of to Apple, so it was rejected.

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