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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#271

Post by manfredo »

panopticon wrote: post #91
tomp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

> That's a stereotype, likely a correct one [snip], and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype. Citation on those not being harmful? Stereotypes like that seem to be a driving factor in why STEM fields are very male dominated. "Girls don't like cars; go find some dolls to play with."

This is often claimed, but not something that holds up to scrutiny. Women's representation in technology peaked in the US during the 1980s. Are we really going to argue that gender stereotypes are stronger in 2020 than 30-40 years ago? Similarly, countries with low gender equality actually have higher rates of women in STEM as compared to more egalitarian countries [1].

I don't disagree that some my find stereotypes alienating. But you're making a very big leap to claim that it's a "driving factor" as far as gender representation in STEM.

1. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#272

Post by fermienrico »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I was with you until

> Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not

I’ve always noticed the opposite. Americans are a lot more forgiving of race than any other country. Even places like Sweden has serious problems with racism whereas US has lead so many positive changes and civil wars about racism.

Growing up in US white suburbs, we were taught by parents to be cognizant of racism and even small things like “African Americans, not black people”. Always had many immigrants and people of color in school. Race is at the center of America as it is the biggest melting pot of cultures in the world for over 2 centuries.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#273

Post by triceratops »

_8j50 wrote: post #101
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

It is stereotyping but not neccesarily racism. I've made the same mistake at a car shop, I thought the small lady on my side of the counter was a customer, i ignored her and talked to the guy behind the counter, but turns out she was the boss+worker and the guy was helping out. I did feel embarrassed, but I know it's not because I think less of women, you just don't see women in those roles a lot. Maybe associative g…

Assuming the lady wasn't wearing a uniform or name badge, and you didn't witness her interacting with the other staff and giving them instructions, you had no reason to think she was the boss of the shop. Would you have acted any differently if she was a man?

It's great that in your mind you also realized you had an implicit bias ("you just don't see women in those roles a lot"), but it doesn't seem like your implicit bias colored your interaction.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#274

Post by wolco »

esperent wrote: post #100
tomp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

It's pretty harmful if you're a woman who likes driving and you keep getting excluded from driving related groups and discussions because the men in these groups assume your interest is not genuine.

It is tough teenage boys who want to babysit for extra cash. They always seem lose the job to a younger girl.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#275

Post by charlesu »

refurb wrote: post #245
leoc wrote: post #125

Here's a recent Twitter thread by Timothy Jones https://twitter.com/timbeejones/ which seems relevant: https://twitter.com/timbeejones/status/1268665921364770816 . I can't vouch for it as I have zero experience of SV or being black, let alone the specifics here, but the author seems to be someone worth hearing on the subject. Someone always complains about reading Twitter threads, so here's a thread unroll https://th…

There are plenty of stories on the internet of this happening to white CEOs as well. The skills to go from start-up to series A are very different from series B to IPO. Now that's not to say race wasn't an issue in this particular case. I don't know.

The great thing about modern racism is that no one can ever prove race was an issue in any particular case unless you confess it. As long as you don't express racist sentiments out loud, you'll always have some form of plausible deniability.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#276

Post by free_rms »

manfredo wrote: post #255
nouveaux wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a publicly traded company is not doing well, the CEO gets canned and no one bats an eye. If one department is not doing well, it's very common to just fire a bunch of people or get rid of the department completely. The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. It just means that the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want. Years of "tweaking"…

> The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. Who offers the protection? Ultimately the are going to be people tasked with stopping criminal behavior, with force if said criminals resist. This isn't a dismantling of the police it's a rebranding.

Camden NJ rebuilt their police department overnight a few years back. Cancelled the union contract, fired everyone and started over. Rehired some of the same cops I believe as part of the new structure.

Murders are down 50% from then, it's still not a nice town or anything but it's not the worst town in America anymore.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#277

Post by agar »

twybriny wrote: post #220
zasz wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systematic exclusion of black people from social programs, like the GI Bill and Social Security, and redlining, which prevented black Americans from building up wealth through homeownership the way white Americans were. "The Color of Law" is a good book on redlining. To expand on the bit about Social Security, farmworkers were excluded, since farmworkers tend to be not white. It was a nice sneaky way to be racist wit…

One of the things that confuses me quite a bit is the focus on laws that expired or have been abrogated 50-60-70-150 years ago and make it as if everything wrong with contemporary American society is caused directly by such laws and nothing else. * GI Bill: adopted in 1944, expired in 1956. * Social Security: adopted in 1935, unclear what the impacts were at the time. Unclear what the impacts are today. * Redlining:…

I can't weigh in from personal experience, but I look at it like a marathon. One set of runners face a first half of the race with mud, crushed glass, vertical climbs, and other obstacles, while other racers had a nice tailwind and extra drink stations.

Regardless of the obstacles faced in the second half (which are still more numerous than the competition's), can't you understand why runners would still look back at that first half to explain their fatigue, anger, and feelings of injustice? Particularly when looking ahead and thinking, "Oh God, this crap /again/??"

The marathon in this example actually spans multiple generations, but even the horrible segregation of the 50's was experienced first hand by the parents of black people still in the workforce today.

Sounds like you came into the race halfway through. As an immigrant you're still facing those unfair obstacles in front of you, but just remember that you don't have the fatigue of carrying the baggage from the first half.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#278

Post by tootie »

ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

People really should know better. It's not that hard to just be polite and avoid assumption. But I think you're doing the right thing by giving the benefit of the doubt. Whatever the reason for their behavior, a helpful and non-judgmental correction is more likely to get them to reevaluate their prejudices and maybe do better next time. As much right as you may have to be indignant it would only make them defensive.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#279

Post by cameronbrown »

itronitron wrote: post #110
tomp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

slightly off-topic, while every Alex I know personally is a guy for the generation that plays Minecraft 'Alex' is considered female. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/28/minecraft...

It's both, nothing odd here.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#280

Post by [deleted] »

js2 wrote: post #216

By my back-of-the-napkin math, white America owes black America about 10 trillion dollars in stolen wealth. The are roughly 50 million black Americans out of a population of 330M. Americans own roughly $100T in wealth. So black Americans should own about 50 / 330 * 100T or $15T. But they currently only own about $5.5T. We could start by allocating some our our Federal tax dollars to making black Americans whole. Sour…

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