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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#101

Post by _8j50 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

It is stereotyping but not neccesarily racism. I've made the same mistake at a car shop, I thought the small lady on my side of the counter was a customer, i ignored her and talked to the guy behind the counter, but turns out she was the boss+worker and the guy was helping out. I did feel embarrassed, but I know it's not because I think less of women, you just don't see women in those roles a lot. Maybe associative generalization is a better term?

Why would the person on the victim end of this feel humiliated? I suspect,at least in part the body language offense and humiliation contributes to the awkwardness. Now, if they insist on treating the guy with less melanin as the boss even after being corrected...yeah, who wouldn't be pissed.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#102

Post by analyst74 »

> the simple phrase ‘Black Lives Matter’ is seen as a political dog whistle, rather than a desperate cry to bring attention to a dire situation that many people choose not to see.”

A little off-topic, but I notice a lot of the "All Lives Matter" people are mistaking the term "Black Lives Matter" as valuing black lives over others. I wonder if "Black Lives Matter Too" would convey its message better.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#103

Post by ccsnags »

SkyBelow wrote: post #63
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

Isn't this part of a different problem of not being allowed to be wrong? It has major impacts on racism (and sexism and other forms of discrimination) making it worse, but also is a factor when someone is wrong in other areas of life and can have negative impacts because owning up to a mistake is something our experiences have taught us to avoid. Why is it that we have a shared experience that you should flee a mista…

Everyone is flawed. That comes with being human. It would be nice to live in a society that allows for people to make mistakes without burning them at the stake. This is not the world we live in, sadly. We have to change that by being forgiving and not piling on.

Apologies, in 2020 USA, just put a giant target on your head and don’t seem to be making much of a positive impact. Change that, you change the game.

People like their scalps too much right now.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#104

Post by throwaway934242 »

throwaway713 wrote: post #65

Whoa! I didn’t realize Leland Stanford was racist. And blatantly so. Makes you wonder if the university should be renamed.

We can rename all the things but it buries the truth. Genetics matter! Ending racism requires solving genetics. Racism cannot be solved by policy just as policy cannot change gravity. Leland Stanford was not wrong unless you believe genetics does not matter--a really dumb position. The idea that all branches of the evolutionary tree are equal in all dimensions is risible and goes against all evidence.

The difference between Stanford and SV leaders now is that the latter don't say what they believe.

"You can measure the level of intolerance in a society by whether you can say that there are things that are true, but that you can't say"

The good news is many SV leaders quietly work now on solving genetics, the real way to end racism.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#105

Post by humanrebar »

hello_friendos wrote: post #90
JPKab wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

I think instantly feeling uncomfortable about a term like "White Fragility" and writing an entire comment about being uncomfortable about the term instead of a comment about the racism Black people face in all walks of life is a perfect example of white fragility.

With logic like that, who needs dialogue?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#106

Post by totetsu »

JPKab wrote: post #56
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

Do you have any quantitative evidence that "people on HN, who are typically super data driven"?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#107

Post by badcede »

contemporary343 wrote: post #70
throwaway713 wrote: post #65

Whoa! I didn’t realize Leland Stanford was racist. And blatantly so. Makes you wonder if the university should be renamed.

It's named after his only son, who passed away from Typhoid at 15: https://facts.stanford.edu/about/

The zealots won't care.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#108

Post by tomp »

remote_phone wrote: post #86
tomp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

Saying it’s not harmful is your privilege showing. Imagine you’re a 6 year old girl and you love cars but you never are encouraged because “women aren’t passionate about driving”. How about just not making any assumptions at all and ask and support people, be it white, black, male, female, trans, etc?

> Saying it’s not harmful is your privilege showing.

No, it's my experience showing. I grew up being basically ostracized (and also bullied) for being a geek. Little did I know it would turn out to be an extremely lucrative career. Simply, while other boys were out playing sports, or indoors playing computer games, I was programming. Because I was interested.

Having said that, I think it's also the case that some people are discouraged from doing what they want, because parents/society. I don't think I'm doing that though. If anything, I'd be more curious about someone doing something unusual (not even in an anti-stereotypical way, but like, generally - such as archery, or spear fishing, or (until recently) bread-making).

> How about just not making any assumptions at all and ask and support people

I definitely support people doing pretty much whatever. But experience shows that it's often better to e.g. lead conversations into interesting topics, rather than play a questions & answers game to find a common interest. The more you're able to do that, based on quick inferences, the better conversationalist you are (on average).

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#109

Post by JPKab »

hello_friendos wrote: post #90
JPKab wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

I think instantly feeling uncomfortable about a term like "White Fragility" and writing an entire comment about being uncomfortable about the term instead of a comment about the racism Black people face in all walks of life is a perfect example of white fragility.

That's incredibly convenient, don't you think? If I was a human being who happened to be black, and made the same criticism, would you have a different response?

You think that my response epitomized the thing I was complaining about. You are welcome to that opinion.

I think that your comment epitomizes the problem I was talking about, which is that this philosophy espouses that every thought in my head or word from my mouth is impossible to separate from my ethnicity. My ideas are beholden to and a product of my group identity in this worldview. I find that to be dangerous and regressive.

I should also add that "White Fragility" didn't "instantly" make me uncomfortable. I purchased and read the entire book. I was open minded about it, until the complete lack of scientific rigor and opinionated, essay-type qualities became clear.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#110

Post by itronitron »

tomp wrote: post #75
ceejayoz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's stereotyping, not racism. It can be both. "Women drive badly" is a sexist stereotype, but not racism. "Black people drive badly" would be both a stereotype and racism.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

slightly off-topic, while every Alex I know personally is a guy for the generation that plays Minecraft 'Alex' is considered female.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/28/minecraft...

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