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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#251

Post by cheez »

scarface74 wrote: post #81
remote_phone wrote: post #58

There was a presentation from the Black Diversity group in my company where they described an incident where they gathered for an ERG meeting. They were a collection of engineers, managers, legal, etc from across the company. The front desk security, who also was black, assumed they were cafeteria staff and directed them to the cafeteria without even asking. It was eye opening how deeply unconscious bias occurs. My A…

Asian women being taken as an authority figure? Heck, anecdotally they can’t even be seen as developers . I have an Asian friend/former coworker. Anytime that we would all go to a local conference they would assume she was QA.

I have a friend who runs a team and hires according to these lines:

  - Management: Europeans
  - Coding: Russians
  - QA: Indians
He will not consider that he might be wrong here.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#252

Post by wolco »

chongli wrote: post #73
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

The whole thing makes white people subconsciously want to avoid minorities because of the risk of mob punishment if they fail to follow new rules being created for conduct.

Same thing happened after me too where many men were afraid to risk power for a real life hookup with the risks involved and have opted out for paided (where legal) risk free transactions. Which in turn has reduced the amount of relationships in general and made everyone lonely.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#253

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

lesstenseflow wrote: post #186
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?” I acknowledge racism is a real issue but thin…

> I acknowledge racism is a real issue but think it’s reasonable to disagree what the best solution is. This stuff (white fragility etc) just smells way too much like “original sin” and “we are all sinners but must strive towards holiness, however unachievable” to me.

I’ve always been a “treat others as you would like to be treated” person. But a lot of this anti-racist concept is appearing on all my pod casts. And now I have to see race?

I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts. Frankly I wish we’d stop importing US culture. Australia isn’t perfect but we largely agree on things like universal health care and getting rid of guns. So I think we can combat racism without having to look at the US for guidance.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#254

Post by bsanr2 »

nsporillo wrote: post #174
claudeganon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robin Diangelo’s work doesn’t seem to me very good or well informed on what anti-racism actually constitutes. It seems mostly like a schtick to sell to HR managers. The way that she essentializes race seems like a bizarre, inverted reification of whiteness (and by extension white supremacy), than any deconstruction or attack on it. Anti-racism is about taking on the powers and material structures that reproduce racis…

What exactly are the powers and material structures that contribute to the perceived racism in our society? From my limited understanding of this position, it sounds like the goal is a dismantling of police and courts which form the backbone of a civil rule of law society.

The backbone of the rule of law is its legitimacy in the eyes of the people. Police brutalizing journalists on camera in clear violation of the law (and presumably with no rectification in court to come) probably does more to dismantle that legitimacy than anything a protestor could do.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#255

Post by manfredo »

nouveaux wrote: post #209
nsporillo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the powers and material structures that contribute to the perceived racism in our society? From my limited understanding of this position, it sounds like the goal is a dismantling of police and courts which form the backbone of a civil rule of law society.

If a publicly traded company is not doing well, the CEO gets canned and no one bats an eye. If one department is not doing well, it's very common to just fire a bunch of people or get rid of the department completely. The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. It just means that the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want. Years of "tweaking"…

> The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection.

Who offers the protection? Ultimately the are going to be people tasked with stopping criminal behavior, with force if said criminals resist. This isn't a dismantling of the police it's a rebranding.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#256

Post by Pfhreak »

stormdennis wrote: post #124
Pfhreak wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the data aligns with your anecdotes. While you may feel that is the experience today, I would be surprised if it represented the wider system as a whole.

His anecdotes is a way of putting what he's saying down. If it was a minority person saying something about their experiences that you didn't agree with, would you refer to them as their anecdotes?

What you are asking is a diversion -- he's not a minority, he's part of the dominant social group (at least from my reading). I'm not saying his experiences didn't happen, I'm saying they contradict the wider view. It has nothing to do with whether I agree or not -- his feelings are absolutely his feelings, likewise his experiences. They just aren't representative of the wider whole.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#257

Post by DenisM »

dang wrote: post #5

This is an interesting and in-depth article that was inappropriately flagged. I've turned off the flags. I understand the impulse to flag follow-up stories [1], especially on the hottest controversies of the moment, which always produce a flood of articles, most of which aren't very good. Curiosity and repetition don't go together [2]. But it's important to recognize the articles that are higher than median quality a…

When you de-flag an article, does it affect only past flags or all future flags for the same article?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#258

Post by notahacker »

Grustaf wrote: post #113
panopticon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a stereotype, likely a correct one [snip], and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype. Citation on those not being harmful? Stereotypes like that seem to be a driving factor in why STEM fields are very male dominated. "Girls don't like cars; go find some dolls to play with."

No normal parent has said anything even remotely like that in the last 30 years. Why is it so terrible to accept that men and women on average have different interests? Everyone knows that testosterone makes young men orders of magnitude more violent, why is it inconceivable that they could also be 4 times more interested in more mechanic play? It’s been observed even in almost newborn chimpanzees for Gods sake.

Is it conceivable that men and women have different average personal preferences [partly] for reasons which are linked to biology? Certainly, though nobody in this thread has suggested that can't be a factor.

Is it plausible to assume that STEM fields and female participation is a case where stereotypes have very little effect? I think I'd need some pretty strong evidence for the idea stereotypes had little effect on any kind of career choice. Even less so for fields where any mention of stereotypes and gender imbalance garners a furious insistence that the stereotype is [i] irrelevant to anyone's advice or decision making [ii] also such an accurate representation of biologically-driven preferences it would be unfair for the gender ratio to change

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#259

Post by triceratops »

tomp wrote: post #35
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

It's moronic to make any inferences about who is who when walking into a room where you don't know anyone. When I walk into a conference room to interview a job candidate whose name I know in advance (from their resume), I always open with "John?" instead of "Hi John". Even though they're the only person in the room.

In the situations described in the article (VC pitch, sales pitch), just make introductions like a normal human being. "Hi, I'm triceratops nice to meet you "

If there are multiple people in the room, follow a fixed, consistent order. Options include nearest-to-farthest or left-to-right or starting from the head of the table.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#260

Post by klipt »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #238
callmeal wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What white person has achieved this goal? I know at least one person who has. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/oct/27/black-like-me-... I know it's not possible for everyone to do what John Howard Griffin did, but reading that book and living that experience vicariously can be a start.

I don't think that's the best example. How does one separate: "They're treating me poorly because I'm a black person" and "They're treating me poorly because I'm a white guy trying to be a black person"

Rachel Dolezal?
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