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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#281

Post by lucideer »

akerro wrote: post #209
shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

>Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. Yes, but also companies exist literally only to make money. Companies can't exist without workers. Once a company finds itself in a position of conflict of interest between political views of workers and point of existence of the company - where contracts bring money... we're going to see interesting things. I wonder, who will break first? The company…

> companies exist literally only to make money

I see another commenter has suffered downvotes for blankly replying "false" to this, so I'll try to be more substantive.

This is confusing symptom and cause. We have evolved a system where companies are defined as having profit as being their "raison d'être" but that's not the same as saying that's why they exist in the first place.

Companies were created to solve problems, those problems required resources and those resources required finance. Economic systems evolved to place individuals with capital in the position of being providers of such finance, who demanded profit as a return, and as such redefined the impetus of companies as existing to provide them with that return.

But it is not the reason they exist.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#282

Post by paiute »

mchanson wrote: post #60
rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

Civility has already broken down because of the US government’s actions. Schools and other parts of the government are ending their contracts with police. People all over the country and looking hard at their actions and the actions of those companies or other entities they associate with. When the government is acting this badly the social contract gets weaker and begins to fall apart. This is just a reaction to tho…

The U.S. Government does not have police contracts with schools. Police are state, county, or local. The last few weeks have made it clear to me very few people understand our system of gov.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#283

Post by nogabebop23 »

jobeirne wrote: post #187
the-dude wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are carefully tiptoeing around race & gender here.

Nope - in free societies you should be able to refuse service on any grounds, including those things. Otherwise you're permitting the government to forcibly compel you to allocate your time and resources to ends they define. In free societies, governments should only be able to forcibly compel people not to do things (murder, threaten, steal, etc.) - see the concept of "negative rights."

HOw do you reconcile not forcing someone to do something with depriving another of life & liberty? The entire reason for protected classes is to prevent the majority from harming the minority.

>> forcibly compel you to allocate your time and resources to ends they define.

...as has been SOP in even the most permissive of societies throughout history. I'm all for classical liberal ideals influencing the world, but these extreme libertarian rules and values have never existed outside the minds of their most zealous believers and you don't have to get too far into the details to see their contradictions.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#284

Post by [deleted] »

shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

[deleted]

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#285

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

swebs wrote: post #151
johncena33 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a genuine question. I want to immigrate to USA, but currently there is no easy way to immigrate to USA. On the contrary Canada has a fair immigration system that allowed me to stay, work and eventually be citizen. Why don't people push for a fair immigration system in USA instead of abolishing ICE? What exactly am I missing here?

>but currently there is no easy way to immigrate to USA The USA has the most immigrants than any other country in the world at almost 47 million residents. That's 4 times higher than the second place country. And the vast majority of them came perfectly legally. For every one person that immigrates to Canada, 6 immigrate to the USA. I don't really know what people are asking for here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li…

This is one of the supreme examples of what a huge effect media bias can have. Without actually lying, the media coverage of immigration (often purposely blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration, with the birth of the term "undocumented immigrants"), people have become convinced that the US is xenophobic and against immigration. The U.S legally allows a million people a year to immigrate here.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#287

Post by shaggyfrog »

kunai wrote: post #274
sprsimplestuff wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're aware that being able to ignore politics is a privilege that you're consciously utilizing. Some people will get affected by "politics" and, thus, must either be silent and suffer or start to care about politics. I could be wrong and politics do impact you negatively and...you just don't care. That's a fair stance I guess, as long as you understand that by doing nothing you're essentially accepting that…

You are arguing with a group of technocratic ideologues who truly believe in the myths that America is a meritocracy and that the free market can solve all problems. That privilege doesn't exist and that everything that comes out of Elon Musk's and Sam Harris' mouth is not sanctimonious and self-important claptrap as it actually is, but instead beautiful eloquent words graced by intelligence and maturity. I have atte…

It’s understandable to give up on a worthwhile cause because you’ve lost the energy for it, but it doesn’t make sense to actively encourage others to give up on it, if the cause was ever important to you at all.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#288

Post by tsimionescu »

johncena33 wrote: post #2

I guess this is the reason lot of corporates try to stay out of politics. Because once you set a precedence then people will use that as to push their own political agendas. I personally don't like the slippery slope argument since it's very lazy and justifies inaction in many cases. But at the same time when I see news like this, I just wonder how long it will take two different subgroups trying push their own confl…

Corporations are most definitely NOT staying out of politics. All of them are actively lobbying the government for numerous different kinds of policies, from immigration and trade to environmental control and taxes. In fact, corporations are the main driving force behind almost all policy decisions in some way or another.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#289

Post by haberman »

shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

> only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble.

> Nat Friedman is on the wrong side of history here. These empty words are no longer sufficient. Hopefully he figures that out before his tenure at GitHub comes to an end.

These statements seem at odds. If privileged people are insulated from negative political consequences, then why is he at risk of losing his job for taking the wrong political stance?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#290

Post by skuthus »

deadalus wrote: post #235
chasing wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but also companies exist literally only to make money. False.

Shareholders don't want to make money? That's not their primary goal?

it isnt typically the only goal, no. Many people own stocks and stakes in companies because they believe in what the company is doing, producing, or working towards.
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