I don't see either approach being morally wrong (granting or denying to employees contract veto power), they're both just different ways of governing an organization. These seem like the underlying questions however, and it seems to me that those calling to end the ICE contract should be prepared to answer them.
After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#272There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…
It's no different than those who claim everything is "political", which of course all too clearly betrays their steadfast belief in "historical materialism". If you make everything political, refuse to see anything except through a political lens, then yes - everything is political.
I must say, the man of aesthetics was much more interesting to talk to.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#273There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…
So who decides? Do companies now need a chief political officer? Do they do some sort of political review of each new customer? What issues do they use to decide on? Do they deny Apple or Nike because of overseas labour conditions? IMO it's foolish for a company to wade into these waters at all unless activism is part of their brand. If you signal you're going to take a stand it ends up having to be around everything…
But not just affirmative actions: not cancelling a contract with an organization that builds concentration camps is making a strong political statement in itself.
They “waded into the waters” the moment they accepted the contract with ICE. What they are seeing now is that their actions have consequences. And while you don’t necessarily intend the consequences of your actions, you must accept them.
Only children have trouble doing so.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a direct reply to your comment, but more of an adjacent one. > Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; But I do choose to avoid them in my personal life. A private company can do whatever the hell they want, whether I approve or not, it's their right. I also believe it is my right to not care about politics and continue moving forward with my own life.…
I hope you're aware that being able to ignore politics is a privilege that you're consciously utilizing. Some people will get affected by "politics" and, thus, must either be silent and suffer or start to care about politics. I could be wrong and politics do impact you negatively and...you just don't care. That's a fair stance I guess, as long as you understand that by doing nothing you're essentially accepting that…
I have attempted on numerous occasions to reason with this community over basic sociological concepts and have repeatedly failed. I have given up on convincing people in SV the truths of the lives of people outside of their bubble. I recommend you do the same and engage in activism. It's more productive. Godspeed.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#275What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…
There is also a contradiction in calling for more economic equality for minorities in the US and picking on ICE. Illegal immigration applies a downward pressure on wages of low skill workers, which is precisely where minorities are over-represented in the US.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#276Wait till they find out their tax dollars fund ICE.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?
In societies that have full respect for private property, I should be able to refuse to do business with you for any reason, including the color of your shoes, the kind of music you listen to, or your marital preferences. Whether it is wise or rationally self-interested to do so is a different question.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#278I fully support steps being taken to reign in police and ICE, however it's still painfully ironic that CHAZ currently has been prioritizing enforcing borders, has roaming groups (peaceful and otherwise) ousting dissidents or those deemed as dissidents and verifying "citizenship". This kind of behavior in any form is troubling.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
The colloquial definition of the term is different from the technical definition, but they don't even meet the technical definition. According to your definition, a concentration camp is an "internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment.." People of certain minority groups aren't being rounded up. Illega…
Illegal immigrants in the US are most certainly a minority group. It's not hyperbolic and unproductive, it's the plain truth, just like the Japanese concentration camps during WW2.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#280There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…
There are well-known historical analogues for many of the people now attempting to refrain from making political statements. Namely, there were those Germans in the Nazi era who were neither pro-Nazi nor openly anti-Nazi and who underwent so-called "internal emigration". And there were those Soviet dissidents who didn’t want to have any part in that decades-long fight between the West ("You Communist countries don't respect individual liberty and free markets!") and the Socialist Bloc ("You capitalist nations don’t respect workers, lynch black people and engage in colonialist oppression!").
Neither of those groups were "privileged", indeed these particular analogues were living in oppressive regimes that were suspicious of lack of enthusiasm and these people often suffered for that. But now, from our modern vantage point, we can have a lot of sympathy for them. They made a decision that was right for their own lives, and some of what these groups’ artists created may not have been fashionable at the time among all the polemic, but now it is seen to be very moving and have great staying power.
Of course, a big corporation with large government contracts is quite different from individuals choosing to refrain from being involved, or a small circle of people thereof that constructs its own shared private world to retreat into, separated from contemporary debates. But still, I think that we should refrain from condemning cases where one group of people has not joined its peers in adopting political statements or actions, even if we strongly sympathize with those political movements and believe them just.