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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#181

Post by barry-cotter »

nvahalik wrote: post #76
nahtnam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?

Would also love to hear the answer to this question. You can’t have it both ways.

Of course you can. One rule for me another for you because I think these two things are different is easily understood by two year olds. Lawyers are perfectly capable of coming up with justifications for anything they like and if the judges feel sympathetic the power of the state will enforce it.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#182

Post by Fellshard »

joshuamorton wrote: post #131
umvi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose that I'm highly religious: 1. I make tools (wedding planning software) 2. I believe (in an informed way) that a group intends to act immorally (use my tools to plan a gay wedding) 3. My tools will make the group more effective at acting immorally Do I have any responsibility for what happens? Or (alternatively): 1. I make tools (highly specialized chemicals) 2. I believe (in an informed way) that a group inte…

Lot's of people seem to think so. Masterpiece Cake shop was a supreme court decision around, essentially, that question, that upheld the right for the private entity to discriminate. So yes I think everyone would agree you have some responsibility (otherwise no one would care about the outcome of the case, why request the right to discriminate if you don't feel that you have any responsibility for the resulting acts?…

It was more specific than that: a cake shop participates directly in the creative effort with the client in the way a software service provider does not.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#184

Post by dagnabbit »

syshum wrote: post #88
rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

>> I can't see how this helps improve immigration, In many ways it does the opposite, for reforms to work you need to build coalitions from all political segments of society, vilifying political opponents (the ones that believe in some kind of immigration control and do not support fully open borders) does not build that coalition that is need to fight the unethical and illegal acts. Instead it puts people on the def…

> Today it seems if you believe in anything other than fully open unrestricted borders then you are considered to be a racist authoritarian from mid 1940's Germany

It only seems that way to thin-skinned white nationalists who cry and whine whenever somebody doesn't support their attempts to change the fundamental nature of America.

These whiny white nationalists are so self-entitled that they portray themselves as horrific victims just because the policies (which they have been actively implementing) get some bad press. Not only do they want to implement horrible policies, they also demand that we pretend to love those policies.

Thank you for so clearly identifying yourself as a whiny, thin-skinned, snowflake of a white nationalist.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#185

Post by Klinky »

DudeInBasement wrote: post #10
johncena33 wrote: post #2

I guess this is the reason lot of corporates try to stay out of politics. Because once you set a precedence then people will use that as to push their own political agendas. I personally don't like the slippery slope argument since it's very lazy and justifies inaction in many cases. But at the same time when I see news like this, I just wonder how long it will take two different subgroups trying push their own confl…

One side gets de-humanized and shown the door. I'll let you guess which side that is. This is why I think good people prefer a-political companies. It is sad, that there are people who have commitments/families, and they are taken hostage by this.

If they don't want to be political, then they don't need to be political. That means:

- No lobbying.

- No campaign or PAC contributions.

- No bandwagoning onto political social causes for marketing-only purposes.

A lot of corporations fail hard at being apolitical, despite the image they try to project publicly.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#186

Post by cyphar »

ancorevard wrote: post #45
mchanson wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are going through a very strange and extreme period in US History. Corporations are a huge part of the political landscape. Of course workers who are powerful will demand things of their workplaces. All corporations are political. By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political. Now by reversing they would be changing sides. They were already in the political fray.

"By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political." Just a reminder that government entities like ICE are executing the current laws of the land.

And who writes the laws of the land? Slavery and Jim Crow were also laws at certain periods of American history. I'd hope it's pretty uncontroversial to say that those laws were also very divisive political issues at the time.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#187

Post by jobeirne »

the-dude wrote: post #142
jobeirne wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In societies that have full respect for private property, I should be able to refuse to do business with you for any reason, including the color of your shoes, the kind of music you listen to, or your marital preferences. Whether it is wise or rationally self-interested to do so is a different question.

You are carefully tiptoeing around race & gender here.

Nope - in free societies you should be able to refuse service on any grounds, including those things. Otherwise you're permitting the government to forcibly compel you to allocate your time and resources to ends they define.

In free societies, governments should only be able to forcibly compel people not to do things (murder, threaten, steal, etc.) - see the concept of "negative rights."

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#188

Post by umvi »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #90
nahtnam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?

No one is born an ICE employee.

Whether you are "born gay" is up for debate as well. There are many instances of people "changing their minds" on their sexuality:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Spacey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Dodson

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#189

Post by nailer »

shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

> It’s the same deal with Amazon or Facebook or whoever. If you work for them you need to admit to yourself that you are an enabler.

Perhaps consider that most people are aware:

- that ICE exists

- that ICE enforces migration law

- that having ICE as a customer helps the US enforce migration laws

Perhaps also consider that supporting the US having migration laws is a mainstream opinion outside a very small cadre of people in a few US cities, so very few people mind that companies serve them.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#190

Post by abtinf »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #104
dsr_ wrote: post #66

Corporations are people. If they don't act ethically, we can't expect people to act ethically. Ending a contract with an agency that runs concentration camps is good. Better, though, is to not accept any contracts with any government that runs concentration camps. Small steps are good. Big steps are better. PS: great fear from all paying customers that run concentration camps that an internet mob could separate them…

Your choice of language by saying "concentration camps" is unproductively hyperbolic and reminiscent of Nazis killing Jews in WW2. People found to have been here illegally are being kept in detention centers until deportation or trial. Nobody is getting gassed or burned in ovens.

Merriam-Webster definition of concentration camp: “a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard —used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners”

Japanese internment camps from WW2 easily meet that definition.

I think immigration detention centers easily meet that definition too: they hold large numbers of individuals whose only crime is being “the other”.

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