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Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

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Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#101

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

alpha_squared wrote: post #99
missingcolours wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote arguments that were thrown at people who wanted to do things like hold funerals for loved ones, visit dying relatives, protest against destroying the life's work of small business owners, etc: - You can do this over Zoom / online - Just because this is important to YOU does NOT give you the right to sacrifice the lives of the others who will be denied hospital care because of your selfishness - You really ca…

> You really can't wait a couple months until this LITERAL PANDEMIC is over? Where does "a couple months" come from?

The pandemic won't go away in a few months, but cases are trending significantly downwards. I think it's fair to predict that mass gatherings will be much safer in August than they are today.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#102

Post by mnm1 »

war1025 wrote: post #2

> Especially During COVID Public gatherings are supposedly extremely dangerous right now. The fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests we got the severity of Coronavirus wrong and people are using this as a convenient out for backing off shelter in place orders without losing face. In February the "Philly had a parade, St Louis Stayed home" article was being shared by here and everywhere else. Fr…

No, it suggests the masses are idiots. Nothing more and certainly nothing new.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#103

Post by agensaequivocum »

alpha_squared wrote: post #95
agensaequivocum wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well no. I actually support peaceful protest. But you cannot in good faith argue that people who are protesting the lock downs don't care about killing grandma then, turn around and say that protesting police brutality is fine, since killing grandma would still be a brutal act of evil and you cannot do an intrinsic evil thing to bring about a good.

I agree that it is a less-than-ideal time to protest police brutality and racial injustice. However, I'd argue still - when is? Minorities are also disproportionately impacted by the pandemic which is highly relevant to both addressing the health crisis and racial injustice. Again, when should all this be addressed? The people protesting the lock-downs appeared to largely be protesting lifestyle inconvenience. Whethe…

> I agree that it is a less-than-ideal time to protest police brutality and racial injustice. However, I'd argue still - when is?

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't protest. I'm only pointing out that a lot of people who are very pro police brutality protests right now were 5 minutes ago saying that protesting lock downs and going out is tantamount to murdering grandma.

> Minorities are also disproportionately impacted by the pandemic...

Is there any evidence that this is a result of racism? We are seeing the same elevated impact on blacks in other countries.

> The people protesting the lock-downs appeared to largely be protesting lifestyle inconvenience

It's more of protesting the government destroying peoples' livelihoods by driving their small businesses into the ground. Moreover, it is an unconstitutional overreach.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#104

Post by alpha_squared »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #101
alpha_squared wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You really can't wait a couple months until this LITERAL PANDEMIC is over? Where does "a couple months" come from?

The pandemic won't go away in a few months, but cases are trending significantly downwards. I think it's fair to predict that mass gatherings will be much safer in August than they are today.

As far as I'm aware, and I'd certainly welcome any information otherwise, super-spreader events are unpredictably random. Coupled with the incubation period, that still sounds like another wave.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#105

Post by [deleted] »

EarthIsHome wrote: post #6

There's a reason tear gas is prohibited in warfare by the Geneva Protocol of 1925 right up there with the other chemical weapons. I got an extremely diluted dose of it while in my apartment with a window cracked, and I had to immediately close the window and leave to another room. I can't believe they're subjecting their own domestic population with chemical weapons.

[deleted]

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#106

Post by herewulf »

grawprog wrote: post #63
dominotw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any idea why this happened to her in particular. Was there anything special about this pepper spray.

No, normal pepper spray at point blank, about an inch from her face, from a police officer arresting her.

Oleoresin capsicum (OC) can cause a hydraulic needle effect if sprayed from too close. The velocity of the stream allows it to penetrate the eye tissue. A trained user would know the range in which it is dangerous (usually about 3 ft but depending on manufacturer, type, etc). So the police officer in question could have felt especially threatened and used it in a manner that he/she knew would be damaging or, more likely, it was an excessive use of force.

However, the amount of damage you describe sounds rather exaggerated. Maybe you mean "disintegrated" corneas, not the whole eyeball?

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#107

Post by jcadam »

asdff wrote: post #65
plutonorm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I’ve heard this obvious point. There are riots now because people just don’t have the energy left to protest while surviving in hyper capitalism. They’ve got plenty of entertainment at home. This is bout energy and time. Employment supresses protest because it takes time and saps energy.

There are lootings because police resources are tied up showing force against protestors, and people with bad intentions see an opportunity. The violence and property destruction is a separate event from the protest marches with different people engaging in these practices entirely. If I was one of the 70k people living on the street in LA, this would be a great time to stock up on essentials from a CVS on Capital's…

There's a very good chance many of the stores destroyed by looting/burning in these poorer neighborhoods won't be reopening.

Perfect opportunity for the large chains to close up some of these locations that had to be marginally (if at all) profitable.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#108

Post by DanBC »

herewulf wrote: post #106
grawprog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, normal pepper spray at point blank, about an inch from her face, from a police officer arresting her.

Oleoresin capsicum (OC) can cause a hydraulic needle effect if sprayed from too close. The velocity of the stream allows it to penetrate the eye tissue. A trained user would know the range in which it is dangerous (usually about 3 ft but depending on manufacturer, type, etc). So the police officer in question could have felt especially threatened and used it in a manner that he/she knew would be damaging or, more lik…

Some police forces are using pepper balls in airguns, and I wonder if it's one of those? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGCLL-rxQVQ

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#109

Post by asdff »

jcadam wrote: post #107
asdff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lootings because police resources are tied up showing force against protestors, and people with bad intentions see an opportunity. The violence and property destruction is a separate event from the protest marches with different people engaging in these practices entirely. If I was one of the 70k people living on the street in LA, this would be a great time to stock up on essentials from a CVS on Capital's…

There's a very good chance many of the stores destroyed by looting/burning in these poorer neighborhoods won't be reopening. Perfect opportunity for the large chains to close up some of these locations that had to be marginally (if at all) profitable.

Big chains can also move right back in when the economics are right with their deeper pockets and other revenue. People with little savings aren't able to ride it out nor buy back in.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#110

Post by 013a »

asdff wrote: post #80
vore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests that police brutality is a horrible forever unaddressed injustice that doesn't care if there's a pandemic or not?

110k Americans cannot be understated. That is a stupidly huge number in a year. For comparison: the entire Vietnam war saw the loss of ~70k, 9/11 saw the loss of 3500 which was enough loss of life to give justification for a nearly 20 year war, and the LAPD killed 12 people last year (1). The sentiment is absolutely correct and any loss of life is too much, but we have to put this pandemic first until it burns out or…

"Give me Liberty, or Give me death" - Patrick Henry

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

Everyone falls on one of two sides of this coin, and its startlingly difficult to understand the thought process behind those on the other side: That people are willing to, gladly, risk their lives and die in the cause of something greater.

My parents wanted me to travel home a month or so ago. They're about 80 years old. I told them it was too risky; that its not about me, its about them, I could have the virus and not know it, they're incredibly high risk, I live in a dense metropolitan area with roommates... They didn't care. Seeing me was more important to them. That's not being stupid: Its being Human.

There's no cause worth fighting for greater than human liberty, and that's what the black community, and along with them many Americans, are fighting for right now.

We're all going to die one day. Sacrificing your life, and ability to live without freely, without fear, to delay your death is never a trade one should make.

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