Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID • Hacker News Board

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#61

Post by asdff » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

EarthIsHome wrote: post #6

There's a reason tear gas is prohibited in warfare by the Geneva Protocol of 1925 right up there with the other chemical weapons. I got an extremely diluted dose of it while in my apartment with a window cracked, and I had to immediately close the window and leave to another room. I can't believe they're subjecting their own domestic population with chemical weapons.

They tear gassed my campus back when we won the national championship in football. People at bars would hide in the bathrooms from the gas, and it still would reach them inside.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#62

Post by agensaequivocum » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

alpha_squared wrote: post #45

agensaequivocum wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you're still killing grandma which is just as bad as police brutality.

Is the argument, then, that protestors should wait until police brutality results in another death when it is more convenient to protest?

Well no. I actually support peaceful protest. But you cannot in good faith argue that people who are protesting the lock downs don't care about killing grandma then, turn around and say that protesting police brutality is fine, since killing grandma would still be a brutal act of evil and you cannot do an intrinsic evil thing to bring about a good.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#63

Post by grawprog » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #49

grawprog wrote: post #47

My girlfriend worked in eye care for years, she's seen a lot of pretty bad injuries over the years one of the worst stories though was a teenage girl who was pepper sprayed in the face at close range. It basically disintegrated her eye balls. One of them was nearly completely gone and the other one had about 30% of its tissue remaining. She permanently lost her vision and had to undergo multiple surgeries and rehabil…

any idea why this happened to her in particular. Was there anything special about this pepper spray.

No, normal pepper spray at point blank, about an inch from her face, from a police officer arresting her.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#64

Post by pmorici » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #2

> Especially During COVID Public gatherings are supposedly extremely dangerous right now. The fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests we got the severity of Coronavirus wrong and people are using this as a convenient out for backing off shelter in place orders without losing face. In February the "Philly had a parade, St Louis Stayed home" article was being shared by here and everywhere else. Fr…

I don't think the warnings about the nature of COVID are wrong the pandemic is just unevenly distributed and people have a hard time contextualizing their personal risk when they aren't directly effected. 110,000 Americans have died in only 4 months. If this continues it will easily be the number 3 cause of death and has a chance at eclipsing cancer at number 2. There are reports of second waves in some place that have lifted restrictions [0] Media reporting is one way to get people to focus on an issue and right now something else has taken priority in the news cycle.

[0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8391325/Iran-countr...

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#65

Post by asdff » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

plutonorm wrote: post #23

aphextron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Police Brutality isn't a new problem. They should have waited until covid-19 was gone. This wouldn't be happening in a world with 4% unemployment. But 20 million Americans are now out of work, stuck at home, and pissed off. Not to mention without the usual distractions of sports or live entertainment. When the bread and circuses break down, this is the result.

This is the first time I’ve heard this obvious point. There are riots now because people just don’t have the energy left to protest while surviving in hyper capitalism. They’ve got plenty of entertainment at home. This is bout energy and time. Employment supresses protest because it takes time and saps energy.

There are lootings because police resources are tied up showing force against protestors, and people with bad intentions see an opportunity. The violence and property destruction is a separate event from the protest marches with different people engaging in these practices entirely. If I was one of the 70k people living on the street in LA, this would be a great time to stock up on essentials from a CVS on Capital's dime. However, I don't condone the looting of small businesses where owners have very little savings. Many of these immigrant run businesses that make LA unique don't have insurance, and many will fold after this inventory loss coming on the heels of two months of no income.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#66

Post by ggreer » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

frompdx wrote: post #52

danielbln wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for that is not necessarily its direct harm though, but to avoid combating parties one-upping each other with chemical warfare, e.g starting with teargas and escalating to sarine gas or whatever. This post explains it better: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/gwtj89/the_c...

> but to avoid combating parties one-upping each other with chemical warfare That policy makes sense and seems applicable to protests to prevent peaceful protests from escalating and becoming violent.

How? There's no risk of escalation in the chemical weapons regime from the protestors, nor is there any chance of the police using lethal chemical weapons such as sarin gas.

The logic around chemical weapons in the Geneva conventions was specific to escalation around chemical weapons. It wasn't a fully general argument about the use of force. Any force used by police could cause escalation, but we do allow the police to use force.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#67

Post by __s » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #28

aphextron wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Police Brutality isn't a new problem. They should have waited until covid-19 was gone. This wouldn't be happening in a world with 4% unemployment. But 20 million Americans are now out of work, stuck at home, and pissed off. Not to mention without the usual distractions of sports or live entertainment. When the bread and circuses break down, this is the result.

This is a great way of phrasing something I've tried saying several times but it always fell flat.

Since I'm gathering you're more open than your initial post gave on, I'll try give feedback on the difference here. Your posts seemed to blame lockdowns as the issue, minimizing the unavoidable impacts of the pandemic. aphextron references a breakdown in supply chains & social support, something the american government has failed to step in for, preferring corporate bail outs

ie there's not an implication that these riots were avoidable by not having lockdowns

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#68

Post by AWildC182 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #44

Every full face respirator you see riot (-causing) police wearing or holding has a P100 particulate filter and could have instead been used by a nurse, EMT, or an at-risk person for protection from COVID-19. And to have so many ready to go, the cops were likely just sitting on their stockpiles throughout that period of dire PPE shortage. If that PPE had been used for healthcare as it should have, the cops would have…

If they had gone to the nurses it would have saved a lot of lives. There have been about 300 medical personnel deaths due to covid already.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#69

Post by Wowfunhappy » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #55

stefan_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this peak HN? People are protesting outside at great risk to themselves because they secretly hated Coronavirus restrictions and want to party? What level of deranged unawareness would ever make you say that?

While I don't think it's a conspiracy, I am convinced that the civil unrest was directly tied to the lockdowns. Floyd's death is the acute cause for the protests, but we've had these protests before and they were much milder. Add mass unemployment, economic uncertainty, closed bars, closed parks, shelter-in-place orders, zero entertainment, no sports, etc., and you suddenly have an explosive situation.

I agree. That isn't to diminish the protests at all or say they're unnecessary, but I think COVID has added to the fervor. People feel cooped up and on edge right now

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#70

Post by jrs95 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #2

> Especially During COVID Public gatherings are supposedly extremely dangerous right now. The fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests we got the severity of Coronavirus wrong and people are using this as a convenient out for backing off shelter in place orders without losing face. In February the "Philly had a parade, St Louis Stayed home" article was being shared by here and everywhere else. Fr…

At this point we need herd immunity so young people gathering and getting infected is probably a net gain. More people will die due to economic damage than the virus if we maintained quarantine until vaccination.