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How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

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Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#111

Post by ficklepickle »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #106
roenxi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything most middle-income Americans think about our police forces is wrong. That statement is a bit vague, everyone is going to substitute their own interpretation in. The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. People who want power over others sign up for policing - and then go after groups who have the least ability to fight back. The middle income might know the symptoms, but they are…

> The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. This is false. There is a long history of police membership in, involvement and collaboration with explicitly racist groups.

I just saw a video with cops throwing up distinct white supremacist hand signs. I guess nobody told them they aren't racist.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#112

Post by da39a3ee »

dm319 wrote: post #53
eganist wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has underfunded education and training at every fundamental step of life. It's the root of many of our problems.

Yes, underfunding education is the real root of the problem as it hampers the democratic process later on.

I would love to see better funding for education everywhere, But, no, that's not the real root of the problem.

To see the real root of the problem, compare the USA to other western democracies such as in Europe. The structure of society is very different, the nature of poverty, the number of people living as an economic underclass, the acceptance in the USA that poor areas of cities will just be fucked and that's normal, the presence of a never-ending source of ignorant, and often racist, people from small-town America, and the presence of a never-ending source of guns. Of course a lot of the above is related to the lack of a strong belief across the voting population that government should protect and support the poorest in society.

Things won't change in America until the above changes meaningfully. That would require the majority of the population to start thinking more like the liberal half, and there is no reason to think that that will happen any time soon.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#113

Post by germinalphrase »

dessant wrote: post #17
samdamsamm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tonight I witnessed a young girl get knocked out cold by a tear gas canister shot into her face from about a 40 ft. range. She was holding her hands up. There was nothing but peaceful protesters standing around, not blocking traffic. No vandalism anywhere in sight. This was in Louisville, KY. The police fired rubber bullets at the group of people carrying her away to a place on the other side of the line of humvees b…

You don't even need to leave your porch to get shot. Police and National Guard are patrolling neighborhoods and shooting civilians with paint canisters on their own property in Minneapolis. In one case they yelled "Light 'em up!" before starting to shoot [1] with ammunition that could blind people. It's legal to be outside your house during the curfew in Minneapolis [2]. > Can I be outside my house (on my property) a…

I’m a local. Here’s some additional context:

“Follow up on video of people getting rubber bullets shot at them in their doorway from a source that was there. This was personally texted to me. Source is a teacher that works at my elementary school.

Here’s what was posted.

‘That is my blue house across the street. Apparently this video has gone viral. What they didn’t show was the 20- 30 minutes of the rioters that surrounded the houses, were all over our neighborhood, the street, rioters running through my yard and screaming on the other side of my garden level bedroom window, and hiding in my alley. The neighbors are saying they were ‘just having a beer outside,’ as if this came out of nowhere and while it seems extreme from the national guard/police, the rioters were flooded in our neighborhood and they were trying to get them out. That was terrifying, and to be honest after being at the Minneapolis community clean up today and seeing all the burned down buildings, I am glad nothing was burned down or broken into. And they got them out. Idk who is out there at night! And yes black lives matter!!!! But these riots are scary AF. And they haven’t returned and are gone now and we are totally safe, and all had been quiet for hours. And apparently my upstairs neighbor had no idea the rioters were here at all ... #minneapolisriots #blacklivesmatter #georgefloyd #helpusall #feltprotected”

Edit: apparently, additional information is... controversial? I don’t agree with the police conduct, but there is additional context here.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#114

Post by wintermutestwin »

bilbo0s wrote: post #75
RickJWagner wrote: post #69

I'm starting to wonder if we need some formal role for communities in this. Bad cops must be held accountable. But also there must be some way to compel a belligerent person to go along with police (i.e. not resist arrest). Maybe there should be 'community liaisons' or something that would be called out when there is a troublesome situation.

In fairness, part of the idea of using professional cops and not soldiers, was originally that professional cops were from the community and would be better able to interact, or "liaise" with community members. It's just that over the centuries we kind of forgot about that part. In the US we moved to the current system where many of the police may not even live in the communities they serve. Heck, they may not even l…

Maybe it is because (where you live ≠ community) anymore.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#115

Post by eyelidlessness »

threatofrain wrote: post #109
eyelidlessness wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police don't target racial minorities because they are racist. This is false. There is a long history of police membership in, involvement and collaboration with explicitly racist groups.

Racism is in all our hearts — what’s important is in developing calm relations with your own strengths and weaknesses so that you can work on yourself if you choose. Embracing this human weakness is part of developing the structures to keep us accountable.

Having internal prejudice which you wish to understand and eliminate, versus actively and purposely organizing or facilitating violence against people of color, are drastically different things. The long history I'm referencing is not people who have hidden prejudices and need to face their demons, it's people who are malicious toward groups of people for their race on purpose.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#116

Post by sethammons »

microcolonel wrote: post #98
xphilter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But again, that’s not the law (the executive order here). They can’t go enforce things not the law. It’s not like there are armed folks running around that street making exigent circumstances. Why do you feel the need to defend something obviously indefensible? Edit: just to be clear, given all the huff and puff by police of needing riot gear, armored trucks, giant guns, I haven’t seen any report in Minneapolis of an…

Dude, last night a federal officer was executed from a van. It wasn't in Minneapolis, but there's no reason to believe it couldn't be there. They gave an order: go inside while we're passing. It is a reasonable order for the few seconds or minutes it takes for the crowd to pass the neighbourhood. Remarkably, reasonable police orders apply to you, even if you are middle class and young.

That’s where you missed it: it is not reasonable to give unlawful orders, it is not reasonable to order someone on private property to go inside. They can request folks to go inside. They cannot order it until their powers are elevated by law. Might doesn’t make right.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#117

Post by threatofrain »

IanCal wrote: post #50
scarface74 wrote: post #6

Always share the video on social media. Don’t trust the cops or any part of the justice system to do the right thing.

Even if the victims don't want that?

In a large scale protest, surveillance and military drones are the end game IMO.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#118

Post by vsareto »

bilbo0s wrote: post #75
RickJWagner wrote: post #69

I'm starting to wonder if we need some formal role for communities in this. Bad cops must be held accountable. But also there must be some way to compel a belligerent person to go along with police (i.e. not resist arrest). Maybe there should be 'community liaisons' or something that would be called out when there is a troublesome situation.

In fairness, part of the idea of using professional cops and not soldiers, was originally that professional cops were from the community and would be better able to interact, or "liaise" with community members. It's just that over the centuries we kind of forgot about that part. In the US we moved to the current system where many of the police may not even live in the communities they serve. Heck, they may not even l…

>In the US we moved to the current system where many of the police may not even live in the communities they serve. Heck, they may not even live in the municipality at all.

Some will take out-of-state applicants as well. This is when they need bodies over liasons. And the hiring standards adjust accordingly, too.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#119

Post by ficklepickle »

rayiner wrote: post #91
rsynnott wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if part of why it seems particularly bad (for a developed country) in the US is the local police force system. In countries with national police forces, misconduct investigations are often conducted by specialist staff who may be from the other side of the country, who likely aren't really in the same org chart, and so on. It seems intuitively less likely to produce a fair result if the people investigating…

The reason why it’s particularly bad in the US is that we’ve got insanely high levels of violent and organized crime. Baltimore, where I used to live, the homicide rate per 100,000 people is 30-50 times higher than in say Berlin, Madrid, London, etc. It’s almost double the rate of Bogota. That creates a police force that treats policing like its war, and public systems that give wide latitude to errors or misconduct,…

Cause or effect? I would argue that the warrior cop mentality escalates violence. That style of police training was banned by the mayor in Minneapolis, yet it continues to be taught and implemented.

You have a very sick society and until you realize it is not all the fault of one group it will persist.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#120

Post by Mirioron »

xphilter wrote: post #102
microcolonel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, last night a federal officer was executed from a van. It wasn't in Minneapolis, but there's no reason to believe it couldn't be there. They gave an order: go inside while we're passing. It is a reasonable order for the few seconds or minutes it takes for the crowd to pass the neighbourhood. Remarkably, reasonable police orders apply to you, even if you are middle class and young.

Where? Do you have a link? Let’s assume that’s true, that a crime was committed across the country. Does that give this group of law enforcement to shoot ltl rounds at unarmed people on private property and in compliance with the law? I don’t understand your reasoning.

I disagree with the parent poster, but a Federal Protective Service member was killed last night in Oakland: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-officer-killed-in-shoot...

I did read that they're unsure whether it was related to the protests though.

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