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Getting Back to Work

tesla.com

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Re: Getting Back to Work

#111

Post by ornornor »

concordDance wrote: post #98
ornornor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s whataboutism though. It beats doing nothing at all, and using some of the things you cite (oil, made in China) is close to impossible to avoid (for now at least), but that doesn’t preclude anyone from saying they disapprove of Tesla and won’t buy one of their car because of what they think of the ceo. Especially when the ceo is the brand.

Well what's the alternative to buying a Tesla? Are there any other purely electric car makers out there that produce at a non-negligible scale? Global warming is orders of magnitude more important than COVID19.

Why yes, as far as I know Tesla isn't only the only auto maker that offers a 100% electric car.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#112

Post by chimprich »

concordDance wrote: post #110
chimprich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the hopes that covid 19 will magically disappear That is not any country's strategy anywhere.

Dunno about other countries, but here in the UK we don't seem to have a real exit strategy at all. I haven't seen any mention in the news of any other country's long term covid19 plan either. They haven't even come out and said "we just need to wait for a vaccine"...

The UK's strategy is lockdown to counteract the initial explosion where we allowed the initial outbreak to get out of control, then gradually release the lockdown whilst keeping R under 1.

Keeping R under 1 is is to be done with a combination of social distancing, human contact tracing, an app, testing, quarantines etc. If R is under 1, your cases trend towards 0.

Eventually the outbreak ends when you get a vaccine or the measures reduce your cases to 0.

No guarantees that it'll work but I don't see why it can't work in theory. You'll probably have occasional flare ups and course corrections but it should get easier over time as total infections reduce and our understanding of the disease improves and testing improves.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#113

Post by hyko »

concordDance wrote: post #102
hyko wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lives are the economy. The lockdown protects the economy.

The lives involved are mostly not economically productive. (This is not to say they aren't very valuable and worth living, just that your quip is incorrect) In my view, lives are for living. A rampant covid 19 (which we'll probably get any way) would cost a few months of life expectancy. I'm unconvinced preventing many from living their lives to the fullest for months in the hopes that covid 19 will magically disappe…

It’s very difficult to live life to the max when you’re dead, or in hospital for weeks.

The idea that a rampant COVID-19 would cost a few months of life expectancy, or that victims of the virus are not economically productive is not supported by the evidence we do have, e.g. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/05/02/would-mo...

We all want the lockdown to end as soon possible, but when we do it, we need to do it right or else risk magnifying the economic and human toll the pandemic is taking. The lockdown is a bridge to a world of virus suppression, which in turn is a bridge to medical solutions that will eliminate SARS-CoV-2 from the human population, everywhere on earth, for good.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#114

Post by samsonradu »

54351623 wrote: post #15

Bold move to extort public officials with threats to move a factory you're attempting to fully automate and a few hundred white collar positions to a state where your main bargaining chip is jobs when you possess less than 5% market share, a vertical monopoly and a luxury product in a crashing market. Excited to see how this one turns out.

Indeed, looking at the bigger picture I can't help seeing the absurdity of it. For all the praising of Tesla cars, which might very well be founded, it's just a freaking car in a market where demand fell off a cliff.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#115

Post by dcanelhas »

concordDance wrote: post #96
nikkwong wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, watching his attitude regarding the entire COVID situation on his recent appearance of the Joe Rogan show really ended the lifelong bout of respect I had for the man. He's paradoxically so brilliant yet so misinformed. His idea that we should all just exit quarantine tomorrow because it's unconstitutional is not only dangerous but also now seems to come from a place of selfishness after this statement. Economis…

Not all epidemologists are in agreement. Sweden's has basically said the costs of shutting down until a vaccine is found (or until the numbers are low enough you can test-and-track and impose quaruntine or testing on all visitors to the country) are worse than just letting it run its course. Bare in mind that all government decisions are heavily biased by the optics of that decision, as seen by the average voter when…

Sweden has a rather different welfare system, typical population density, income distribution, typical household demographic, urban planning and culture regarding social interactions, compared to many places that would use it as an example for what to do in this crisis. I think following the available evidence, interpreted by experts is the way to go. Ultimately the argument for Sweden's policy seems to be less based on cost saving than general wellbeing. A good bit of insight here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY

Re: Getting Back to Work

#116

Post by ben_w »

concordDance wrote: post #98
ornornor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s whataboutism though. It beats doing nothing at all, and using some of the things you cite (oil, made in China) is close to impossible to avoid (for now at least), but that doesn’t preclude anyone from saying they disapprove of Tesla and won’t buy one of their car because of what they think of the ceo. Especially when the ceo is the brand.

Well what's the alternative to buying a Tesla? Are there any other purely electric car makers out there that produce at a non-negligible scale? Global warming is orders of magnitude more important than COVID19.

I thought the point of the free market was to send signals about what factories should be built with your purchasing choices, not to limit your purchasing choices to whoever has the biggest factory today?

So me buying a non-Tesla electric car will have much the same effect as buying a Tesla with regard to the future of personal transportation? Regardless of how many cars the other manufacturer is currently producing?

I wonder what signal I’m sending by not owning a car…

Re: Getting Back to Work

#117

Post by ben_w »

seppin wrote: post #76
toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but mid 30s and I’m getting a bit tired of folks who are out of touch because of their age believing their past experience can extrapolate a future they don’t understand (Buffett in particular has done a very poor job understanding and investing in tech). It’s terribly ironic that they think Musk is just lucky considering Munger and Buffett were able to invest during one of the most prosperous times in Americ…

> believing their past experience can extrapolate a future they don’t understand Imagine thinking anyone knows what will happen in the future.

I think that’s the point of having a brain at all — to predict the future better than a dice roll would’ve.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#118

Post by tinus_hn »

hyko wrote: post #41

And so fades any chance that I’ll ever buy a Tesla vehicle. All this lunacy is rotting the brand from the inside, and nobody has the power to stop it. Especially galling because they were supposed to use technology to lead us to a better world, but instead they seem to be unable to escape one man’s hubris.

Have fun buying a car from a manufacturer that is not manufacturing, and be sure to complain about Tesla threatening to boycott California while you threaten to boycott their products!

Re: Getting Back to Work

#119

Post by cassalian »

ra7 wrote: post #55
anonytrary wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not very fair, since I could make the exact same argument about the the government's actions on this issue. Lockdowns didn't just threaten to destroy jobs -- they did destroy jobs. Calling out Elon Musk for making a decision that would do the same provides no contrast. On top of that, Elon Musk is trying hard to get his workers back to work . If it means moving to a new state where workers are actually allowed…

Let’s be real. All this drama by Elon Musk has very little to do with his “concern” for workers. He just wants to resume production so the business can resume. This is the same person that refused to shut down the factory and put his workers’ health at risk. The motive behind his dangerous tweets and tantrums is pretty clear for everyone to see.

> The motive behind his dangerous tweets and tantrums is pretty clear for everyone to see.

Does his motive necessarily matter? Or more specifically, is his motive reason enough to essentially spite him?

If Elon wanted to cure all disease in every single on of his workers (because that would mean they would never take sick days, and thus produce more) does that mean you would oppose the curing of disease in Elon's workers? After all, Elon's motivations are purely selfish in this case as well

Now maybe you want to argue that curing disease in workers and allowing them to work are two different things and don't match up at all. Are they though? Jobs ensure quality healthcare, pay for the roof over your head, the food on your table, the pain killers you take for your bad back, etc. A lot of being 'healthy' and having a job (in the US) are intimately related.

I'm sure there are plenty of holes in my example above that can be quibbled over; however, my question still stands: is someone's motivation reason enough to spite something that could be a net good? I do not think so.

You may wish to argue that "the workers don't want to go back to work, it's worse for them to do so": are you one of these workers; do you know what the consequences are of them not being able to work versus the consequences of going into work?

Re: Getting Back to Work

#120

Post by ben_w »

holler wrote: post #74
Phr0ztByte wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And from the same article "is bold and brilliant, and he swings for the fences." and ... "People like that get some remarkable results,” Munger continued. “Sometimes they get some quick failures. I haven’t the faintest idea how Elon Musk will turn out, but he has a considerable chance of success and considerable chance of failure. He seems to like it that way."

> but he has a considerable chance of success... Wait a second, by all measures this billionaire is _already_ successful, no? How could anyone claim the contrary?

Money on that scale is of a very different character to money as normal people understand it.

It’s more like being a medieval king: to the extent that you’re the shareholder, your wealth is the “nation’s” wealth; your guards are paid for out of your pocket; and you can be drawn into conflicts that lead to you losing everything.

It’s that latter part that I’d be worried about with Musk. He took a very big gamble with SpaceX, and if one more launch had failed in the early years, he would’ve become a mere footnote on someone else’s Wikipedia page. The concern is he might make similar gambles in future.

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