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We Chat, They Watch

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Re: We Chat, They Watch

#131

Post by diziet »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #119
hadtodoit wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the US isn't a communist dictatorship

Can you define the characteristics of a communist dictatorship that are relevant here? Not the economic ones per se, but the ones that make you nervous about spying and media control.

An American tells a Russian that the United States is so free that he can stand in front of the White House and yell, “To hell with Ronald Reagan.” The Russian replies: “This is nothing. I can stand in front of the Kremlin and yell, ‘To hell with Ronald Reagan,’ too.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#133

Post by darawk »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #38
BobbyJo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust the privacy of any of those services, but there is a huge difference between "the government can subpoena information, or do targeted sniffing if you dont encrypt anything" and "we have a cron job set up that send everything directly to a government server for the express purpose of suppressing speech" To be clear, those services are lame for being as untrustworthy as I believe they are, but let's not e…

Sniffing by the US government isn't that targeted. And the US does harass people who say stuff they don't like, and has a long history of doing this. Were just not executing/jailing that many of them right now.

There is a very wide gulf between sniffing and companies explicitly building tools to facilitate government censorship and suppression.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#134

Post by pengaru »

adminprof wrote: post #60
pengaru wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This narrative of false equivalency is dangerous, IMO. What's dangerous is convincing yourself that proprietary systems won't betray your trust.

That's not what the parent post said, or inferred. Don't put words in others' mouths please.

> That's not what the parent post said, or inferred. Don't put words in others' mouths please.

I thought it was clear those words came from my mouth.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#135

Post by TomMckenny »

FpUser wrote: post #102

Don't you worry, the US pays in kind.

It's absurd to compare the US to China because:

1: It's not the topic

2: it's a blatant falacy

3: it distracts from the main point adding unneeded emotionalism

and 4: Even with it's current slide toward Eastern European style strongman state, it's not remotely as bad to it's people.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#136

Post by elefanten »

cyphar wrote: post #107
forgot_again wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The false equivalency also begs a deeper moral analysis. Let's assume the US government has as complete access to iMessage and WhatsApp as the CCP does to WeChat. The story doesn't end there, since you have to examine the nature of the entities that have access to your information. Would I prefer that access be held by the US Government, which for all its faults is extremely engaged with and integrated into the globa…

I disagree with several aspects of your depiction of the US's "robust court system" (especially in the case of mass surveillance). There have been several attempts by citizens to sue the US Government for their illegal and indiscriminate surveillance programs, but have been stonewalled for years by government lawyers arguing that such cases should not happen in public courts (where they could be held accountable) due…

In aggregate, the systems of governance and human rights that we endorse for the world will have a direct impact on our lives in the long run.

If you think you're marginally more likely to be arrested and prosecuted for littering because of super secret iMessage collection... why not consider the marginal effects of turning a blind eye to (and contributing to the economic expansion of) an illiberal, anti-democratic power that, in your words, does "far worse to their own people than the US"?

They seem to already be comfortable collecting your data as they please and influencing various levels of your government. What harm could it do to enthusiastically profile yourself for them?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#137

Post by woutr_be »

krzysiek wrote: post #74

Looking at the comments I think that most of commenters missed an important point. It's not just that the app is tracking users, but the messages sent by any non-Chinese user help the regime censor the content for Chinese users. In other words, if you use WeChat, and you send a photo of something that happened in Hong Kong along with some text that explains it, then you actually help Chinese authorities to censor thi…

I use WeChat to talk to friends in China, (I live in HK) and I noticed that last year, especially when the protests were intense, many of my posts just didn't show up. These were mostly pictures unrelated to the protests. I had the sense that anything coming out of Hong Kong was just hidden by default.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#138

Post by Cyph0n »

cyphar wrote: post #107
forgot_again wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The false equivalency also begs a deeper moral analysis. Let's assume the US government has as complete access to iMessage and WhatsApp as the CCP does to WeChat. The story doesn't end there, since you have to examine the nature of the entities that have access to your information. Would I prefer that access be held by the US Government, which for all its faults is extremely engaged with and integrated into the globa…

I disagree with several aspects of your depiction of the US's "robust court system" (especially in the case of mass surveillance). There have been several attempts by citizens to sue the US Government for their illegal and indiscriminate surveillance programs, but have been stonewalled for years by government lawyers arguing that such cases should not happen in public courts (where they could be held accountable) due…

> But the key question is -- do you live in or have any connection to China? If not, then I would go with the CCP surveillance because there is no obvious mechanism for such surveillance to harm you directly.

Tell that to the forcibly disappeared political dissidents, or to the Uyghurs who are being "re-educated" as we speak.

And remember, even if you're not connected to China now, that can always change in the future.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#139

Post by justusw »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #98

It’s worth noting that Facebook Messenger also intercepts and filters messages. For example, it’s impossible to send a message containing the link “joebiden.info”. On the mobile app, it will simply say “failed to send.” On desktop, it will tell you the link violates its “community standards” and cannot be shared.

I just tried it on Facebook Messenger, and it would only work when switching to a encrypted chat (which kind of makes sense).

Kind of outrageous to criticize WeChat and leave out Facebook, when it clearly wants to join the party. I realize Facebook doesn't implement the same degree of censorship as WeChat, but to be fair, I live in Japan, and even for me the joebiden.info is censored.

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