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We Chat, They Watch

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Re: We Chat, They Watch

#71

Post by ColanR »

FreakyT wrote: post #36
bgorman wrote: post #3

Did anyone actually think WeChat communications are secure? Do we have reason to believe iMessage and Whatsapp are more secure?

This narrative of false equivalency is dangerous, IMO. WeChat has been proven to be a heavily monitored and censored network. Whatever security failings iMessage and WhatsApp have, they pale in comparison to what's in place for WeChat.

I think the assumption behind your claim of false equivalency is exactly what the parent comment wanted to discuss.

You say the security failings of iMessage and WhatsApp pale in comparison to WeChat; I agree with parent comment and ask - in light of PRISM etc. - on what grounds can you say we should not be just as suspicious?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#72

Post by aplummer »

pinewurst wrote: post #49
MattGaiser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better Zuckerberg than Xi. Zuckerberg has no power to have a bag put over anyone's head and have them carried away to the river.

Not yet anyway - remember his “listening” campaign and seeming murmurs of entering politics. He’s still young, unlike Winnie the Pooh...

Even if he did enter politics (in America), it’s not at all the same thing.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#73

Post by forgot_again »

FreakyT wrote: post #36
bgorman wrote: post #3

Did anyone actually think WeChat communications are secure? Do we have reason to believe iMessage and Whatsapp are more secure?

This narrative of false equivalency is dangerous, IMO. WeChat has been proven to be a heavily monitored and censored network. Whatever security failings iMessage and WhatsApp have, they pale in comparison to what's in place for WeChat.

The false equivalency also begs a deeper moral analysis. Let's assume the US government has as complete access to iMessage and WhatsApp as the CCP does to WeChat. The story doesn't end there, since you have to examine the nature of the entities that have access to your information.

Would I prefer that access be held by the US Government, which for all its faults is extremely engaged with and integrated into the global system, beholden to Law and a robust court system which enforces a strict set of checks and balances on its behavior, and is philosophically rooted in individual liberty?

Or would I prefer the CCP, which does not even recognize the concept of individual liberty, is beholden to no one but itself and its own desires, and ruthlessly upholds its iron and unquestioned (unquestionable, at least in China) will upon the entire nation with absolutely 0 oversight?

Yeah, gonna go with the US here.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#74

Post by krzysiek »

Looking at the comments I think that most of commenters missed an important point. It's not just that the app is tracking users, but the messages sent by any non-Chinese user help the regime censor the content for Chinese users. In other words, if you use WeChat, and you send a photo of something that happened in Hong Kong along with some text that explains it, then you actually help Chinese authorities to censor this photo in China.

> Upon analysis, files deemed politically sensitive are used to invisibly train and build up WeChat’s Chinese political censorship system.

Also I think it's super cool how they did the research.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#75

Post by jijji »

People are routinely jailed in china for sending messages on WeChat [0] [1] [2]... This has been going on almost on a daily basis since WeChat started... Did anyone think they weren't monitoring and censoring it?

[0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/jailed...

[1] http://www.phayul.com/2020/03/22/42960/

[2] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/25/tech...

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#76

Post by [deleted] »

forgot_again wrote: post #73
FreakyT wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This narrative of false equivalency is dangerous, IMO. WeChat has been proven to be a heavily monitored and censored network. Whatever security failings iMessage and WhatsApp have, they pale in comparison to what's in place for WeChat.

The false equivalency also begs a deeper moral analysis. Let's assume the US government has as complete access to iMessage and WhatsApp as the CCP does to WeChat. The story doesn't end there, since you have to examine the nature of the entities that have access to your information. Would I prefer that access be held by the US Government, which for all its faults is extremely engaged with and integrated into the globa…

[deleted]

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#77

Post by LeoPanthera »

KeepFlying wrote: post #24
madeofpalk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there’s a white paper on iMessage’s security, and there isn’t (i don’t think) on WeChat. WhatsApp’s encryption uses libsignal. The security qualities of iMessage and WhatsApp is known. It’s not of WeChat.

There's a whitepaper on iMessage's security as it was at a single point in time. It may be possible to verify this on a recent build with enough effort, but the average user will never be able to make that validation. So we can't be completely secure there. More secure than WeChat? ABSA-FREAKING-LUTELY. And do I trust Apple to remain secure? Yes. I'm mostly putting this here because I've heard people talking about se…

The white paper(s) are regularly updated, and were last published Spring 2020, so "a single point in time" is not accurate.

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/welcome/web

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#79

Post by dajohnson89 »

danielheath wrote: post #64
zxcmx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still not a full answer, of course, your proprietary operating system or closed chipsets can spy on you. Absolutism isn't helpful IMHO, there is no true security in this world only degrees of trust and risk. You can always go one step further in securing a product but the first step still matters. I think there's real value in companies implementing e2e (and it's hard! it's super hard politically to get this d…

AFAIR Whatsapp does send a copy of your messages to facebook if the messages flag the apps internal 'sounds-like-criminal-activity' scanner.

Do you have a source on that?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#80

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

bgorman wrote: post #3

Did anyone actually think WeChat communications are secure? Do we have reason to believe iMessage and Whatsapp are more secure?

It's really dangerous to downplay bad news with "Geez, you're surprised at this news? What a moron." It's newsworthy for badness, not for unexpectedness.
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