U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#801

Post by mdszy » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 1:55 AM UTC

valachio wrote: post #729

mdszy wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally killing people for the sake of "the economy" is a disgusting notion to even attempt to defend. The system is entirely broken.

In the US alone, hundreds of thousands of people die a premature death due to obesity. In fact, obesity is so bad in most first world countries, people are calling it an obesity pandemic (sounds familiar). Does that mean the government should force McDonald's to serve healthier foods? And force McDonald's to stop using all the shitty ingredients and chemicals they put in their food? Or maybe the government should reg…

Sorry but if all you can think of when there's an incredibly contagious virus for which there are few treatments and no cure is "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE?????" then I know all I need to know.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#802

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

TomVDB wrote: post #786

sudosysgen wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Trump have to compromise with the left wing of the Republican Party? Did Biden have to compromise with the left wing of the Democratic Party? No, because of the implicit threat of being primaried, or for the party to be shifted. Which Obama did not even threaten, but all others presidents did (towards the right). He also openly compomised in the name of "bipartisanship" multiple times despite it being uneeded.

The only thing that comes close to a left wing part of the Republican Party is Sue Collins, who is always very sorry and disappointed but eventually toes the party line.

Compared to Trump, roughly half of the Republican party is to his left by varying magnitudes. Obamacare, for example, was originally a Republican proposal.

But yes, the entire Republican party line eventually toes the party line. Same for the Democratic party, as long as the party line strengthens the class interests of the elite.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#803

Post by jb775 » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 2:49 AM UTC

mdszy wrote: post #801

valachio wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US alone, hundreds of thousands of people die a premature death due to obesity. In fact, obesity is so bad in most first world countries, people are calling it an obesity pandemic (sounds familiar). Does that mean the government should force McDonald's to serve healthier foods? And force McDonald's to stop using all the shitty ingredients and chemicals they put in their food? Or maybe the government should reg…

Sorry but if all you can think of when there's an incredibly contagious virus for which there are few treatments and no cure is "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE?????" then I know all I need to know.

You missed valachio's point entirely. Quit being so smug and try to consider things from a different perspective.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#804

Post by JoshuaDavid » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 2:55 AM UTC

losteric wrote: post #797

stcredzero wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What minority are you even talking about Any of them. Some of them, I'm in. Some of them, I'll never be in. The principle is universal: A just society protects the minority. Any of them.

Any of them? Including groups that want to oppress others?

"Protects" is not equivalent to "grants the political wishes of". For example, people who want to abolish free speech still have the right to argue for the abolition of free speech.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#805

Post by mdemare » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 2:58 AM UTC

alexilliamson wrote: post #762

mdemare wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a lockdown, most of the country will eventually be infected. NYC currently has 21000 excess deaths, so extrapolating that to the rest of the country would mean 21000*328M / 10M = 690,000 excess deaths. That's assuming that nobody else in NYC is going to die of Covid 19, even after lifting the lockdown, so this is an extremely conservative projection, and it's already close to 1M deaths. What's implausible abo…

I mean I agree it's plausible, but it also seems likely that it's more lethal in NYC because of population density.

More infectious, sure? But more lethal? Why?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#806

Post by tekknik » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 3:21 AM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #759

fzeroracer wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From one person who was born into poverty to another, I'll gladly call you ignorant because my version of your story involved me taking out a loan against my personal health in order to take a risk that either could've put me above water or doomed me. I'm missing a lot of my teeth but it got me out of poverty. Do you think that was a good trade? Do you think it's a good thing that people have to make such decisions t…

I think this is the crux of what drives me mad with these personal anecdotes of struggle. Is this the best we can do as a society, that a few poor people, through work and luck, can become less poor? What's the point of these stories, beyond just sharing one's personal experience? That the society we've got here is the best we can do?

because that drive to pull ones self up is what built the US into what it is today. without that drive what is the point of being more than what you are today? the struggle to be something more is literally the driving factor behind all of existence. the opportunity is out there for most people if they look hard enough. that said there are definitely some who need societal help to pull them out of a rut but it is most definitely not even close to a majority.

like others in this thread, i too came from a family living below the poverty line yet somehow turned that into a career despite not even having a degree. opportunity to me seems plentiful

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#807

Post by tekknik » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 3:30 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #537

mc32 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can read if that way. What I see is them propping up business so that there are actual jobs to go back to once things stabilize. It does little good to send people thousands of dollars if when that dries up, and it would, there are no above board jobs to go back to.

How nice of the governments to help businesses afford to eat instead of people. There is no reason assistance to people has to go through business. The reason governments do that is because leaders own equity in the current hierarchy and definitely don’t want to disturb that by giving the lower classes leverage to demand better terms.

Do you not understand that if there are not jobs to go back to there will be no eating tomorrow either? If businesses start to go under, and this cascades as it usually does, we could be seeing serious recession, or even economic failure? What do we do about food then? Also what happened to the economic stimulus checks and unemployment system? The systems are definitely taxed but that only shows you how big we’re getting hit atm.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#808

Post by tekknik » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #648

jl6 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some businesses can be easily put on hold and restarted later. I’d wager it’s not that easy for most.

I’d wager those businesses are already classified as essential and kept operating. And if not, that can be a separate issue the government can tackle, but there’s no need for it to be conflated with the issue of keeping people fed and housed.

just like keeping people fed shouldn’t be conflated with keeping businesses operating and solvent. your logic cuts both ways and businesses shouldn’t have been brought up by the grandparent in the first place

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#809

Post by fzeroracer » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #764

ryandrake wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be much harder to "look down" on the protestors if their protests were backed by sanity. For every sign saying "I need to work to feed my family," you see 20 saying: * Coronavirus is a hoax! * Fake nurses! * 5G cellphones cause coronavirus! * Impeach Bill Gates! * Vaccines are poison! * Social Distancing is Communism! * Freedom!! There are reasonable arguments against the temporary shutdown, but the proteste…

For every sign saying "I need to work to feed my family," you see 20 saying... Ask yourself this: Why is the media playing up those fringer crazies, and not covering the very poignant, socially relevant, and human angle of "I need to work to feed my family"? Then go and look up Manufacturing Consent . Here's how propaganda often happens in the West: Emotional manipulation is better than outright ham-handed Pravda-esq…

You realize everything what you say holds true on the opposite side of things, yes?

All of the media coverage I've seen and read played up those protesters as valiant, the suffering workers of the world uniting to stop the government from destroying their career.

Your argument that this is the result of a unified media doesn't exactly work, unless you're referring specifically to media you disagree with.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#810

Post by dleslie » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 3:46 AM UTC

cgh wrote: post #466

toomuchtodo wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People bring it up because it's true . https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5843316/the-case-for-canada

[flagged]

You're wrong about the religious extremists.

Canada was home to a large number of devout Catholics and Protestants, and has had many important internal conflicts between the two. Read up on Louis Riel for a good introduction.

What we lacked was homogeneity in the religious extremism; thanks to an early balance between French and English settlers there was never long a period when Catholic or Protestant were dominating.

We also enjoyed being the home to English loyalist refugees during the American war of independence... And the destination of the underground railroad.