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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#361

Post by blisterpeanuts »

cowholio4 wrote: post #309

Not only were they completely wrong with their numbers, they even were wrong in their assessment of Fauci. They said they “are actually seeing the patients, Dr Fauci hasn’t seen a patient in 20 years.” In 2015, Dr Fauci personally helped take care of an Ebola patient when most of the world was terrified of Ebola. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/why-nihs-anthony-fau...

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#362

Post by briefcomment »

jonkho wrote: post #359
ceejayoz wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can make a pretty good estimate of COVID deaths by comparing against past years. There's a clear, large spike - NYC's death rate is six times the average for this time of year. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... Giving that we're still low on tests, if someone dies before a test of COVID-like symptoms, it makes sense to co…

Couldn’t the spike in nyc deaths be inflated due to the standard operating procedure of using mechanical ventilators for which 9 of 10 patients die [1]? Wasn’t there a big fuss (several articles posted here) about how mechanical ventilators were overused when less invasive methods produced better outcomes, therefore reducing mortality[2]? [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/almost-9-... [2] https:/…

Seems like it should be explored further

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#363

Post by Retric »

btilly wrote: post #331
Retric wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State level data is collected using the exact same methods. In many places people with symptoms are told to self isolate until they have difficulty breathing etc. This makes state level data a highly biased sample. There are a few population studies for very specific areas, but no widespread statewide sampling anywhere. PS: The US has ~50,000 Coronavirus deaths. Assuming a very optimistic mortality rate of 0.5% sugge…

Given the delay between catching it and dying, a lot of the people who have it and will die from it are not currently counted in your deaths. This could mean that substantially more Americans have it. (Though on current projections, less than a factor of 2.)

I was including that for my optimistic 0.5%. South Korea with a younger population, good healthcare system far from maximum capacity, and very good but not perfect testing has a CFR of 2.3% and rising. Diamond Princess has 14deaths out of 712cases, while not a representative sample it’s still conformation that a high percentage of even young healthy people need hospitalization.

The biggest question IMO is how much we are undercounting fatalities. NYC lists Confirmed deaths at 11,820 plus Probable deaths at 5,395. They also add: Due to delays in reporting, recent data are incomplete. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#364

Post by fao_ »

brlewis wrote: post #348
kolanos wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying these doctors are correct in their statistical extrapolations. What I am saying is the Kern County anecdote being spread around to discredit them by people who haven't even seen the video are practicing in the disinformation that they accuse these doctors of perpetrating.

As I fully explained in a nearby comment, the logic in their Kern County anecdote is representative of their logic for California and New York statistics as well. I am not misrepresenting anything or practicing any form of disinformation.

>I am not misrepresenting anything or practicing any form of disinformation.

I'm not saying that you are misrepresenting or disinforming people. But, how would you know unless someone told you?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#365

Post by dougk16 »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #278
briefcomment wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone address the claim that death certificates coerce doctors to list COVID as the cause of death even if it hasn't been shown definitively to be the case? Is this a thing?

Given that the federal government is paying hospitals between $13,000 (covid patient) and $39,000 (patient on ventilator) for every Coronavirus patient [0], you can see how the incentives might cause hospitals to coerce doctors into listing COVID as cause of death. [0] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/21/facebook-p...

Of all the "facts" flying around, this one is not only one of the most powerful by itself, but is also (even if it is in some way false) a great distilled example of all the unimaginably strong incentives pulling at the world right now, which I hope gives people an appreciation of how little they can actually know for sure.

Even with such a fact slapping you in the face, I mentioned this to someone and the response was basically "hospitals and doctors exist to help people, they would never take advantage of the system like that". There was no continuing the conversation from there. Who knows how reality works, but at the least we've had radically different life experiences if you don't think this could cause the case count to be pulled strongly in the upwards direction away from the actual number. And I'm sure there are other influences pulling it back down, so maybe all the forces are balancing themselves out.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#366

Post by aliminator8 »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #361
cowholio4 wrote: post #309

Not only were they completely wrong with their numbers, they even were wrong in their assessment of Fauci. They said they “are actually seeing the patients, Dr Fauci hasn’t seen a patient in 20 years.” In 2015, Dr Fauci personally helped take care of an Ebola patient when most of the world was terrified of Ebola. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/why-nihs-anthony-fau...

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

YouTube has the right to censor anything it likes. It's their platform. If you don't like it, don't use YouTube.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#367

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #360
AareyBaba wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also "If people can go to Costco, then why can't they go to church".

Man may not live by bread alone, but bread will get you through times of no religion better than religion will get you through times of no bread.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#368

Post by [deleted] »

btilly wrote: post #331
Retric wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State level data is collected using the exact same methods. In many places people with symptoms are told to self isolate until they have difficulty breathing etc. This makes state level data a highly biased sample. There are a few population studies for very specific areas, but no widespread statewide sampling anywhere. PS: The US has ~50,000 Coronavirus deaths. Assuming a very optimistic mortality rate of 0.5% sugge…

Given the delay between catching it and dying, a lot of the people who have it and will die from it are not currently counted in your deaths. This could mean that substantially more Americans have it. (Though on current projections, less than a factor of 2.)

[deleted]

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#369

Post by milemi »

JPKab wrote: post #303
milemi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really really like it, just like I really really like what's his name being deplatformed. I like it even more that I can't readily remember his name, right, Alex Jones. YouTube has no duty to be a platform for Diamond and Silk in scrubs.

Censorship is a fickle friend. It's great, until you inevitably find that you hold a minority, unpopular opinion on an issue. Your flippant remark indicates a lack of deep thinking on this issue, and once I googled Diamond and Silk, I realize that your probably a bit of a partisan as well. The removal of Alex Jones didn't help anything. It just helped reinforce the paranoia he and his supporters have, which is that a…

I see your brother in law (way to draw grand conclusions based on a sample of one, btw), and raise you an article in nytimes, which might be, just might be, a bit better researched https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/technology/alex-jones-inf...

The article isn’t recent, and I challenge you to find a more recent record that paints a less gloomy picture for him, but I doubt you’ll find it.

Alex Jones is a non-entity now compared to his heyday. Deplatforming works, your extended family notwithstanding.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#370

Post by brlewis »

fao_ wrote: post #364
brlewis wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I fully explained in a nearby comment, the logic in their Kern County anecdote is representative of their logic for California and New York statistics as well. I am not misrepresenting anything or practicing any form of disinformation.

>I am not misrepresenting anything or practicing any form of disinformation. I'm not saying that you are misrepresenting or disinforming people. But, how would you know unless someone told you?

Answered in nearby comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23014548
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