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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#101

Post by runawaybottle »

deminature wrote: post #90
bofadeez wrote: post #86

It's literally terrifying that they removed this video. Someone uploaded a copy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25m0fm2LSIg

They said they're culling misinformation and they're doing it. I don't see what's terrifying about this. Maybe unsettling if you're aggressively pro-free speech, but 'terrifying' is very hyperbolic.

Take one afternoon of your time and just google information on how China identifies videos on their platforms for a variety of reasons and pulls them. Heck, if you make a dumb enough video saying certain things in China, they’ll pull it and give you a little visit. It’s a super slippery slope once you decide ‘we have to do this because we need to protect the public, we know better’.

Here is a larger scenario. I personally think a lab oversight in the Wuhan region could have led to a virus outbreak, enough to at least discuss it. This theory could be deemed by WHO, which could be heavily influenced by Chinese investment, to be lies. With YouTube’s blanket policy, they would be doing the Chinese government’s bidding by getting rid of this lab virus narrative from Youtube (all under the guise of following WHO guidelines).

Anyway, you cannot censor based on an organization or a government’s guidelines.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#102

Post by milemi »

JPKab wrote: post #58

I completely disagree with most of what the doctors in the video are saying. However I really really don't like YouTube removing content like this.

I really really like it, just like I really really like what's his name being deplatformed. I like it even more that I can't readily remember his name, right, Alex Jones. YouTube has no duty to be a platform for Diamond and Silk in scrubs.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#103

Post by cpwright »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #42
javagram wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in reality, the number of excess deaths compared to the average year, or compared to last year, is well above the counted number of COVID-19 deaths. Anecdotal claims about deaths being miscounted as COVID-19 don’t really stand up to this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1252616296891465729 The level of deaths/week we are seeing is like nothin…

For those that are paywalled, in New York the excess deaths of 6 times normal. You can't make that go away by claiming normal deaths are being misclassified.

There are likely deaths that are collateral damage. Fewer people are going to hospitals for heart attacks and strokes. It seems unlikely that we actually have fewer heart attacks, but people are scared of the hospital - so don't go and are more likely to die.

I am in the end the lockdown camp; but even if we allow businesses to open, many people will still be legitimately worried or scared and stay home even when it is something important like medical care.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#104

Post by dboreham »

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #93
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to at-risk people lockdown ends? They could continue to shelter, but if the rest of the world isn't, anybody they make contact with will put them at higher risk due to decreased practice of social distancing.

A natural byproduct of a functioning society has always been otherwise avoidable deaths: car accidents, workplace accidents, flu deaths, etc. The idea that we can hide out until the virus completely disappears is a fantasy. The only sustainable path forward is targeted lockdown and isolation for the most vulnerable along with mustering our energies for testing and treatment.

Not quite true because you can avoid overshooting herd immunity with the slowed spread we will hopefully see now.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#105

Post by James_Henry »

drummer wrote: post #22
javagram wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

Elon is a good critical thinker and saw from the very beginning that the response to COVID-19 was way out of proportion. Lots of other scientists and doctors saw from the very beginning that COVID-19 was not worse than the flu, most of whom have been censored again and again. There's even a paper published about it early in March showing the new corona virus is not worse than the ones before [1]. So Elon is being pro…

I honestly am not sure how to put the idea that this is not worse than the flu together with the death numbers that we've seen in New York City, Italy, and other places. Suppose the death rate had been inflated as Roussel et al. suggest, is there another more important metric by which to measure the severity of the pandemic or the necessary severity of reaction to a pandemic (though the death rate in NYC is definitely more than .2% because that much of the population has already died)?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#106

Post by threatofrain »

> We're actually seeing the patients. Dr. Fauci hasn't seen a patient for 20 years... it's like the general contractor vs the sub. He's not seeing patients, he's in an ivory tower, and we have a world of respect for him, he's a world reknown immunologist, two different, he's an academic, and we've dealt with academics all of our lives... but academics and reality are two different things.

> Coronavirus lasts on plastics for 3 days, and we're all sheltering in place. Where'd you get your water bottles from? Costco. Where'd you get that plastic shovel from? Home Depot. Those are fomites and carries of disease... and if I swab things in your home, I would likely find COVID-19.

> When you go to Del Taco and you get a plastic bag or piece on your burrito from someone not wearing a mask who's just wiping their arm on your thing, do you think you're protected from COVID?

> We wear masks in an acute setting to protect us. We're not wearing masks, why is that? 'Cuz we understand microbiology, we understand immunology, and we want strong immune systems. I don't want to hide in my home, develop a weak immune system, and come out and get diseased.

> Is the flu less dangerous than COVID? Let's look at the death rates, no it's not. They're similar in prevalence and in death rate. So we're saying that our response now, now that we know the facts, it's time to get back to work, it's time to test people. But again, testing gives you a moment in time...

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#107

Post by sneak »

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #88
gmfawcett wrote: post #47

This is lazy reporting. It's not wrong, but there's no insight here. No critical assessment of the claims made in the video nor the Youtube T&C, just a few clickbaity excerpts and some reaction comments. Compare with this excellent piece by the CBC on a somewhat similar viral video in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/u-of-r-biology-p...

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques a…

This is an existential threat to a free society in any times of crisis involving the military, not just pandemics:

https://sneak.berlin/20200421/normalcy-bias/

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#108

Post by aisofteng »

jaggederest wrote: post #85
manfredo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are infections and death tolls in the countries with much less restrictive measures an order of magnitude higher?

Yes, actually. Here's an example, probably the best natural experiment we're going to see in this context. Five times more, depending on your idea of "order of magnitude". https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-loc...

The goal of the shelter in place is to “flatten the curve” so that the medical system is not overloaded. According to that article, they believed that their medical system could handle the load and has.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#109

Post by DanBC »

Apaec wrote: post #44
Gibbon1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side I saw a short interview with a UCSF doctor that went to help out in New York where mentioned the hospital converted their cafeteria into a COVID19 ward. Not just in case but because it was full of patients on vents. No amount of Hacker News Mental Gymnastics(tm) is going to explain that away.

Well, I also saw a medical worker saying that if someone dies before testing, that will be counted as a COVID death[1]. No amount of Hacker News Mental Gymnastics(tm) is going to explain that away. [1]: https://twitter.com/BraveTheWorld/status/1254232498122428416

> I also saw a medical worker saying that if someone dies before testing, that will be counted as a COVID death[1]

But this is what happens for flu too. You want to count them using the same methodology. You either use confirmed cases (Covid-19 kills more people than a bad flu year, and yes we do test for flu); or you use confirmed and suspected cases (again, covid-19 kills more than a bad flu year); or you use excess mortality (and this year we have huge increase in excess mortality).

There's no way to look at the data and come up with anything other than "covid-19 kills a lot of people".

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#110

Post by avsteele »

DanBC wrote: post #87
avsteele wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LA county serology* showed 4.1%, with a confidence interval of 2.8% to 5.6%. That test that has a ~3 week lag so current #'s are even higher. Are you really prepared to say a claim of 6.6% is so misleading it needs to be removed? * http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/phcommon/public/media/media...

What's the selectivity and specificity of the test used in the study you quote?

Selectivity is near 100% for tests where I've seen data.* I don't know about the specific one LA used but selectivity isn't the problem usually.

The sensitivity is the issue, but that would tend to push the true infected % up not down.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.15.20066407v...

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