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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#21

Post by s9w »

javagram wrote: post #14
drummer wrote: post #8

Elon Musk appears to like what they said as well: https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/12544950502282608...

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

> It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views

The same exact accusation is being made by the other side towards the "doomers". That the doomsday crows is doubling down because they can't admit their fault. I'm not siding with anyone here, just noticing.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#22

Post by drummer »

javagram wrote: post #14
drummer wrote: post #8

Elon Musk appears to like what they said as well: https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/12544950502282608...

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

Elon is a good critical thinker and saw from the very beginning that the response to COVID-19 was way out of proportion. Lots of other scientists and doctors saw from the very beginning that COVID-19 was not worse than the flu, most of whom have been censored again and again. There's even a paper published about it early in March showing the new corona virus is not worse than the ones before [1]. So Elon is being proven correct again and this is not the first time this happens.

[1] Roussel et al., “SARS-CoV-2: fear versus data.”, Int J Antimicrob Agents. 2020 Mar 19:105947, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32201354

“Under these conditions, there does not seem to be a significant difference between the mortality rate of SARS-CoV-2 in OECD countries and that of common coronaviruses (χ2 test, P=0.11). Of course, the major flaw in this study is that the percentage of deaths attributable to the virus is not determined, but this is the case for all studies reporting respiratory virus infections, including SARS-CoV-2.”

“Under these conditions, and all other things being equal, SARS-CoV-2 infection cannot be described as being statistically more severe than infection with other coronaviruses in common circulation.”

“Finally, in OECD countries, SARS-CoV-2 does not seem to be deadlier than other circulating viruses.”

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#23

Post by javagram »

s9w wrote: post #21
javagram wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

> It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views The same exact accusation is being made by the other side towards the "doomers". That the doomsday crows is doubling down because they can't admit their fault. I'm not siding with anyone here, just noticing.

Yes, I find that even more bizarre. The “just the flu” crowd clearly put down their stakes with death predictions for a no-mitigation scenario that were greatly exceeded by the actual high-mitigation scenario we experienced over the last 1.5 months.

For instance, here is Elon claiming on march 18 that by the end of April, the USA would have followed the same pattern as China and cases would have dropped to near zero. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240483296347181057?s=20 (Never mind that china achieved this by a massive shutdown and quarantine regime stricter than any US state has done). His prediction was way off but he doesn’t seem to have learned.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#24

Post by javagram »

drummer wrote: post #22
javagram wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

Elon is a good critical thinker and saw from the very beginning that the response to COVID-19 was way out of proportion. Lots of other scientists and doctors saw from the very beginning that COVID-19 was not worse than the flu, most of whom have been censored again and again. There's even a paper published about it early in March showing the new corona virus is not worse than the ones before [1]. So Elon is being pro…

Your quoted paper is 5 weeks old, as shown by the excerpt “ compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.”

Now, today, we are at 50,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths just in the USA, and an analysis of excess mortality data already shows that a significant % of COVID-19-related deaths are not included in that count.

This is with a massive mitigation campaign and nationwide social distancing. The only place where the virus seems to have established itself is in NYC (20% of people infected according to a recent study) where we have seen incredible death tolls and overwhelmed morgues. (Edit, needless to say, none of the 4 common cold coronaviruses do this, ever.)

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#25

Post by javagram »

amiantos wrote: post #19
javagram wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

I'm not really a fan of the idea that any person (or company) can be compelled to give a platform to someone (or something) they don't want to. Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you a soapbox, and it certainly doesn't guarantee you the right to someone else's soapbox. It sounds like a strictly emotional argument to suggest that YouTube doesn't have the right to decide what is or isn't allowed on their platform, and…

The (dictionary) definition of censorship does include private institutions censoring. For instance, if private libraries remove a book from their shelves because they dislike the contents, that’s absolutely censorship.

It’s YouTube’s legal right to remove this, but I do recognize that the more YouTube exercises censorship and editorial judgment over the content, the more likely they are to remove content I like and agree with as well, so that is what concerns me.

And I also wonder if removing this specific video might do more harm than good, because it lets the authors cry out that the establishment is censoring them and helps promote their conspiracy-theory-level thinking. In certain cases speech suppression can be very effective, but since powerful elements of US society (e.g. Fox News) are engaging in motivated reasoning to agree with the contents of this video, it could provide an additional plank to convince those who aren’t capable of evaluating the scientific arguments themselves.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#26

Post by DanBC »

Here's a useful twitter thread that talks about mistakes these doctors made: https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1254481543759683584?...

> What they did was simple: they looked at the fraction of patients who tested positive for #COVID19 at the clinics they own. They found 340 out of 5213 tests were postive, about 6.6%

> Then they assume the same fraction of the whole population are infected.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#27

Post by drummer »

javagram wrote: post #24
drummer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon is a good critical thinker and saw from the very beginning that the response to COVID-19 was way out of proportion. Lots of other scientists and doctors saw from the very beginning that COVID-19 was not worse than the flu, most of whom have been censored again and again. There's even a paper published about it early in March showing the new corona virus is not worse than the ones before [1]. So Elon is being pro…

Your quoted paper is 5 weeks old, as shown by the excerpt “ compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.” Now, today, we are at 50,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths just in the USA, and an analysis of excess mortality data already shows that a significant % of COVID-19-related deaths are not included in that count. This is with a massive mitigation campaign and nationwide social distancing.…

The data presented by the two doctors is fresh, and shows exactly what the paper says. COVID-19 is not worse than the flu.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#28

Post by javagram »

drummer wrote: post #27
javagram wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your quoted paper is 5 weeks old, as shown by the excerpt “ compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.” Now, today, we are at 50,000 confirmed COVID-19 deaths just in the USA, and an analysis of excess mortality data already shows that a significant % of COVID-19-related deaths are not included in that count. This is with a massive mitigation campaign and nationwide social distancing.…

The data presented by the two doctors is fresh, and shows exactly what the paper says. COVID-19 is not worse than the flu.

The “data presented by the two doctors” has obvious reasoning errors to anyone who has taken even high school math.

At this point, how can you look at the number of people who died from COVID-19 in just the last month in NYC and claim this is no worse than the flu? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona...

The last flu to cause such a severe spike in mortality statistics was the devastating 1918 Spanish flu. Even the Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics didn’t do this.

Edit: corrected the Spanish flu year. My bad :-)

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#29

Post by lurquer »

DanBC wrote: post #26

Here's a useful twitter thread that talks about mistakes these doctors made: https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1254481543759683584?... > What they did was simple: they looked at the fraction of patients who tested positive for #COVID19 at the clinics they own. They found 340 out of 5213 tests were postive, about 6.6% > Then they assume the same fraction of the whole population are infected.

That was an obvious error in their reasoning.

Not surprising, though.

Idiotic (and, yes, such an error IS idiotic) fumbling with statistics is displayed on a daily basis.

It doesn't matter what 'side' you are on: idiots abound.

Doomer fallacies: Charts showing exponential growth of positives, without taking into account the exponential growth of tests...

Flu-Bro fallacies: Antibody surveys that don't take into account false positives and make no mention of the expected number of positives in a population (both needed to make ANY sense of the results.)

Doomer fallacies: No distinction between dying 'with' versus dying 'from'.

Flu-Bro fallacies: Relying on death counts from the Chinese Communist Party.

Doomer fallacies: Comparing 'positive' test rates between populations and countries with utterly different criteria for administering tests.

etc.

One thing you can count on, though: You will usually get a downvote on Hacker News if you deviate from the mainstream.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#30

Post by sschueller »

drummer wrote: post #22
javagram wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon’s response since the beginning has been way off, “The coronavirus panic is dumb” (March 6). I guess he doesn’t want to learn from his mistakes. It’s somewhat incredible to see how the “just the flu” crowd doubled down on their views despite the failure of containment in NYC (and high death tolls overseas in the UK and elsewhere) making it clear how many more people would have died if their plan of just letting t…

Elon is a good critical thinker and saw from the very beginning that the response to COVID-19 was way out of proportion. Lots of other scientists and doctors saw from the very beginning that COVID-19 was not worse than the flu, most of whom have been censored again and again. There's even a paper published about it early in March showing the new corona virus is not worse than the ones before [1]. So Elon is being pro…

A good critical thinker does not tweet out his emotions, calls someone a pedo on Twitter and later doubles down on the mistake he made.
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