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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#231

Post by milemi »

um_ya wrote: post #177
milemi wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not super familiar with YouTube's policy on this, but apparently they decided to curb what they deem to be COVID-19 misinformation. I completely agree that what these two are doing is spreading misinformation, this is not anywhere in the range of a seasonal flu, the numbers are clear on that. It's very naive to think that what these two are doing is a good faith attempt to present a dissenting opinion. If someone…

And what happens when you yell fire in a movie theater and they silence you when it's true? It's not just about the "incorrect" content that's posted on Youtube, it's also the correct content that gets censored. How else would we learn about the water that makes the frogs gay?

Luckily I wrote down those deets before it went dark. Best water I ever drank. My frogs are loving it too.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#232

Post by briefcomment »

ceejayoz wrote: post #182
briefcomment wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone address the claim that death certificates coerce doctors to list COVID as the cause of death even if it hasn't been shown definitively to be the case? Is this a thing?

We can make a pretty good estimate of COVID deaths by comparing against past years. There's a clear, large spike - NYC's death rate is six times the average for this time of year. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... Giving that we're still low on tests, if someone dies before a test of COVID-like symptoms, it makes sense to co…

This is interesting. I'm a little confused though. Life expectancy has been on a consistent decline for the last few years, particularly in the US. On top of the declining life expectancy, there should presumably be more people dying as a result of a growing population. In the graphs, they show multiple years. Why do weekly deaths from the last several years, broken out by year, basically look the same?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#233

Post by pnako »

senectus1 wrote: post #119
forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques a…

I dont get this mindset. They aren't stopping them voicing their opinions or views... they're just stopping them posting it on THEIR service. Newspapers do that all the time, TV and Radio does it all the time. Why is this different?

It's YOUtube, not CNN. Or maybe that's what they ultimately want to become?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#234

Post by balls187 »

nikolay wrote: post #123
threatofrain wrote: post #106

> We're actually seeing the patients. Dr. Fauci hasn't seen a patient for 20 years... it's like the general contractor vs the sub. He's not seeing patients, he's in an ivory tower, and we have a world of respect for him, he's a world reknown immunologist, two different, he's an academic, and we've dealt with academics all of our lives... but academics and reality are two different things. > Coronavirus lasts on plast…

If these are "doctors", I don't want them to treat me! ER is a different kind of health care! ER doctors are not virologists or epidemiologists. So, to use their own example, you don't want a plumber to do your roof!

Apparently, they own a private Urgent Care center.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#235

Post by knzhou »

busymom0 wrote: post #173
deminature wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said they're culling misinformation and they're doing it. I don't see what's terrifying about this. Maybe unsettling if you're aggressively pro-free speech, but 'terrifying' is very hyperbolic.

Before WHO was saying there's no human to human transmission and masks don't help. So anyone who created a video opposing that would get their video taken down. Later, WHO started claiming the exact opposite. Now anyone who created a video previously will also get taken down. How exactly do you propose deciding what's misinformation and what's not?

> WHO was saying there's no human to human transmission

This is one of those completely false things that people only believe is true by repetition. Go back and actually read the full set of WHO statements in mid-January. They have a bunch of statements saying that nations should get prepared, one saying that specific studies haven’t yet found hard evidence for person-to-person transmission (because at that point most of the cases they’d managed to find were tied to the market). The WHO never, ever said that it can’t be transmitted, and they absolutely never said that people should do nothing about COVID-19. They were urging nations to act for months before they actually did.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#236

Post by philwelch »

threatofrain wrote: post #155
philwelch wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delegating “responsible judgment” to a formal institution or organization sounds fundamentally dubious in this context.

How is it fundamentally dubious? If you don't trust Google to make a category of social or moral judgments, you're either trusting the market or you have another institution do the job.

Or you could just not do the censorship in the first place and give people the freedom to make their own personal judgments whenever they’re presented with conflicting perspectives.

You’re assuming that some global institution has to be The Arbiter Of Truth because common people are too stupid to think for themselves and I find that assumption disgusting.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#237

Post by sergiotapia »

techntoke wrote: post #144
strken wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has no legal duty to be a platform, nor to deplatform. It arguably has moral duties: to facilitate free discussion, and to remove harmful material. In this case there's a clear clash between the two that will make a lot of readers nervous.

Why does it have the moral duty, when you signed it away in the TOS when you used their service? Host your own videos if you don't like it or better yet build a better platform that is censorship-resistant.

HONK HONKs love saying this tripe line everywhere online, but whenever someone tries and gains traction The Cancel Squad deplatforms them through their incestuous in-group.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#238

Post by mixmastamyk »

aisofteng wrote: post #108
jaggederest wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, actually. Here's an example, probably the best natural experiment we're going to see in this context. Five times more, depending on your idea of "order of magnitude". https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-loc...

The goal of the shelter in place is to “flatten the curve” so that the medical system is not overloaded. According to that article, they believed that their medical system could handle the load and has.

And if true they are just bringing them forward.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#239

Post by gr33nman »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #196
gr33nman wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it’s not the job of news media to herd their audience into thinking the right things. However, it is their duty to uncover and report the truth. “If someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the [expletive] window and find out which is true” -Jonathan Foster

The author of this article probably doesn't have the expertise to find and interpret the data to make a judgment about what the doctors in question are saying. Quoting others is really the best can do. Sometimes there really is just no window look through. And even if they did that it wouldn't really serve what the author here is trying to cover. This is an article about Youtube censoring two doctors. The reason why…

If this were a story about the Kardashians, it might not matter, but journalists have a responsibility to do better than this when lives are on the line. This article does not meet basic standards for ethical journalism:

https://www.spj.org/pdf/spj-code-of-ethics.pdf

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#240

Post by perf1 »

austincheney wrote: post #175
forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques a…

There have been several lawsuits about this over the past few years and they always fail. Google is a commercial company and not a public institution. There are no first amendment protections here and they can remove any content they wish. The commonality of the platform does not make it a public institution. If that bothers you then boycott them.

Are they arguing that they are a publisher? Because that would also mean being liable for the content.
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