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Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

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Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#71

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

I was JUST coming here, as someone who got two degrees in the US and went home to start an internet based company, to say that I opened this article and saw the name of the author - rolled my eyes and closed the window without even reading it.

How many times can you beat a dead horse ?

We get it. America is "losing it's edge" to emerging markets.

His articles have always been disappointing to me, as someone who has been through the immigration process and hoped that maybe he had more detailed figures to backup his assertions - which would help my case.

But he often doesn't.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#72

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

I was JUST coming here, as someone who got two degrees in the US and went home to start an internet based company, to say that I opened this article and saw the name of the author - rolled my eyes and closed the window without even reading it. How many times can you beat a dead horse ? We get it. America is "losing it's edge" to emerging markets. His articles have always been disappointing to me, as someone who has b…

It doesn't matter if you get it[], what matters is the people with the power to change the law hasn't.

[] unless you have the power to change the law or do something to actually substantially help, rather than just complaining because there's one entry on HN today that didn't meet your liking.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#73

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

You should look at the H1B numbers. Close go 120000 people apply for it and uscis selects 65000 people by lottery. E eery single person who makes it through has at least a degree in the areas they work on. These people leave their homes and friends and everything they know back home in hopes of making a better living. Does that ring a bell from history? However the h1b visa restricts them to one company and the same job till they get a green card which may arrive after 8 years. Once they get a green card many folks start companies of some sort.

Folks who don't get h1b or green cards often apply for Australia, U.K or Canada. Recent additions to the list are Germany, Scandinavian countries(petroleum), Dubai, Singapore, brazil. Many of these countries offer a comparable standard of living, and government incentives for immigration and establishment of businesses. Also some cities in india and china are fast becoming vc magnets. There may be a day soon when venture capital too gets Bangalored.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#74
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now? >And yet, despite the INS's dickitude, the country churns out startups like crazy. So enough is enough? Will more hurt, esp with 10% unempl…

> Okay... so...? Did you wait 10 years for a Green Card while in immigration limbo? Do you even know the difference between then and now? I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to co…

I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here.

The INS doesn't exist any more, and that's the least of the changes. It is not a simple issue of supply and demand, and while I don't want to minimize the headaches you went through 20 years ago, the legal landscape has changed considerably since then.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#75
post #69
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this argument make sense if we had a "Google clone"? There's a market to be tapped, and they seem to be doing just that. One wonders why this is even possible, and if Groupon's dropped the ball in India. Regardless, they're running a business. What's not to like? Many Silicon Valley start-ups are incredibly derivative, but a flip is still a flip.

It would have made more sense if it was not a country-specific clone of anything, i.e. if it really was a "next big thing", not a regional adaptation of what's big in the U.S.

Andy Grove's opinion made for an interesting, and imho persuasive, argument against this. Taking the laptop battery industry as an example - the outsourced manufacturers first made derivative products. Over time though, they achieved competence and finally mastery of the technology.

By opening the door and improving on what they had, even if it was a clone of something, they understood what had to be improved and finally dominated the market.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b41860483...

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#76
post #27

I have stopped reading what Vivek writes. It almost feels like he's writing inflammatory articles just to keep his name in print. I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Nothing has changed. It's just plain old government bureaucracy; but in this instance, their clients can't vote either, so there's no fear of a ba…

Incorrect - Things HAVE changed.

India did NOT have the same appreciation for tech 20 years ago. Today it does.

Friends who are 20-25 are coming back here and setting up clones of workable ideas. They are learning what needs to be done and what the opportunity is over here. They KNOW what good code is, they know what high quality means, and they ARE building it here again. They will build it from scratch if they have to.

America did NOT compete for talent like it has to now. Yes the seeds of entrepreneurship will spread far and wide. The topic at hand is to make them bloom in America.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#77
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why I left my country (USA)to become an immigrant in Vienna Austria. Indeed, why would anyone leave their home for new laws, different language, different foods, different social customs. The very same reason both my great grandfathers left Ireland to come to America, opportunity, and a better way of life! Our family are all US born citizens. I am a registered republican, highly educated, and have founded 2 successfu…

I can understand Americans who move to places like Brazil or India in search of opportunity, but it's surprising to see central Europe as a destination. (I'm not American nor European, but live in NYC and worked in the EU). I doubt Germany, Austria and France are churning out more scientists & engineers than the US. They most definitely are not churning out more entrepreneurs. In fact they're barely producing a next…

Clearly, starting a business in Europe is far more costly and time consuming than in the US. It took 3 months to get approval by the Handelsgericht (commercial court) to obtain approval of the incorporation papers. In Austria, you must have a minimum 35000 euros of "startup capital" invested "on deposit" to form a company. In the US, it can be done in an afternoon.

Regulations and oversight in Europe is far greater, and intrusive, than in the US, which can be frustrating to me as an American, however I understand the reasons, and clearly can see the benefits of this in the stability of the financial and business industries. With kurzarbeit, there was minor economic damage to either Germany or Austria.

The key economic drivers of European growth, Germany, France, Austria, Norway, Finland, Switzerland tend not to have boom / bust cycles like the US.

The Euro definitely has issues in the absence of an "economic union", however if any country goes into default, it does not bring the entire union down.

Europeans tend to focus on R&D of "long term sustainable" "tangable technology" rather than the modern silicon valley focus on "short term fluff" of facebook, zynga, iPhones, iPads etc.

Airbus kicks Boeing's ass in Aerospace (not to mention business efficiency (787 outsourcing debacle) European research is superior in almost every category, and is at par with the best that the US has to offer. Europeans do not turn over their core R&D in order to do business in China, or India.

NASA manned spaceflight (the 11 billion dollar boondoggle of the canceled ARES / CONSTELLATION)(and the new heavy launcher designed by politicians) is a huge embarrassment for US expats like myself. For Europeans, this is clear undeniable evidence of the US having lost its technical superiority, and Europe's rise to supremacy.

Europeans tend not to do business arrangements with dictators as often as the US. And I think that it is immoral to exploit citizens in another country which tolerates slums (Brazil favelas), and does not work actively to lift its people out of poverty (China/India). Check out the favela tourism (predominantly patronized by US citizens) next time you're in Rio.

Yes, Europe in general is not as astute in funding of high tech startups, and culturally are more risk averse to funding the silicon valley fluff.

Greece Spain Ireland: Unlike in America, if California or Illinois, or Ohio declares bankruptcy, its fatal to the entire country. In Europe, it would cut Greece loose from both the Political and Monetary unions in a snap.

Not so easy to kick states out of the United States union.

As far as EU expats, I've personally met many Germans and Austrians who have returned from the US, and vow never to live there again (violent crime / fascism / kleptocracy). Most would like to visit again, because of the friendly people and the beautiful landscapes. These folks in particular "get why I am here", and the advantages of Europe over the US. There is a weekly television show in Germany and Austria called "Goodbye Deutschland", which chronicles such expat adventures primarily to the US. The vast majority return home with a newfound respect for their home country, and wiser about the world in general.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Deutschland!_Die_Auswan...

Really, everybody with the opportunity should leave their "country of birth" for a few years as an adult. It helps to truly put your country in perspective with the rest of the world.

The US is a beautiful country with a majority of wonderful caring and friendly decent people. It however pretends to be a democracy and operates as a kleptocracy / fascist republic. Yes there is corruption in Europe as well, however here, people go into the streets and demand justice, whenever the politicians fail to act in the best interests of its citizens!

Wisconsin is the "first shot heard around the world" for the next US revolution. With people equally divided on critical issues, and politicians unwilling to negotiate and compromise (kleptocracy), the next 15 years are going to be witness to the next US civil war.

Europeans has survived fascism, and will never allow its return. America is in the throes of fascism, and it will be Europe and the rest of the world paying to rebuild the USA.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#78
US cons:

- imigration

US pros:

- open a company with one phone call to IRS

- get funding is feasible

- most companies will deal with you (e.g. app store)

non-US pros:

- easy to get visa

- health care :)

non-US cons:

- a full month of bureaucracy to open a company.

- some three months to close it. more if you ever had any employee

- funding? hahahaha

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#79
post #62

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

I don't get why so many people are attacking Vivek. Step back from trying to eval() every single tiny detail to death. The bigger point here is that he is helping shine a light on a huuuuuge pain for immigrant founders in the US that hasn't gotten much attention (or a solution), all this while. Why is that a bad thing? The DEA has been cracking down on druggies since forever, and it's been beating the same drum ever…

Your stance seems to be that, because Vivek's piece agrees with you on a topic you feel strongly about, it doesn't matter if it's a lousy article that fails to make the point effectively. But you of all people should care about the article's ability to convince people who aren't already on board with your "bigger point." It's a bad thing because you do a disservice to your cause when you let people off the hook for making a persuasive argument just because they agree with you. It makes it look like you can't actually substantiate your position. If you're right, you should be harder on Vivek than anyone else to get him to make the point effectively.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#80

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

I think you are either missing the point, or not taking in to the account the fact that the restrictive immigration laws here are preventing or delaying possible entrepreneurs (like me) from startups that could create markets, challenge today's tech titans and create jobs. I am not saying we all end up directly creating hundreds of jobs, but the impact a startup has, or its technology has, and its story reverberates…

I don't want to hijack this thread or the merits in your comment. I've been in the US 15 years now and in the same stage as you without a green card. (on EAD) When I got my EAD 2 years back, I quit my full time gig and went contracting to save up some money. A month back, I quit my contract gig to do my own startup. In spite of the fact that immigration sucks in US, you have to pursue your dream too. It all depends on how badly you want it.
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