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Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

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Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#51

Post by kmfrk »

jimbobimbo wrote: post #36
kulkarnic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't about US vs. India immigration. It is about US immigration vs. the cost/effort of starting up a company in India (by an Indian citizen). No one's competing at this point to make it easier for "young people from African countries... to emigrate to those other countries". The low-hanging fruit is people of Indian/Chinese/whatever origin returning to their homeland and starting up the next big thing there, inst…

Ahem... Starting another groupon clone in India is not necessarily a next big thing.

Would this argument make sense if we had a "Google clone"?

There's a market to be tapped, and they seem to be doing just that. One wonders why this is even possible, and if Groupon's dropped the ball in India. Regardless, they're running a business. What's not to like?

Many Silicon Valley start-ups are incredibly derivative, but a flip is still a flip.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#53

Post by jmtame »

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

i wonder if he's using the emigration argument to try and convince people to support this, or at least get their attention. i'm not sure if people will get behind the founder frustration argument, but if people think jobs are at risk they might be swayed more easily. i thought the argument was pretty convincing in the story--you saw more than half the people in that room raised their hands when asked if they thought they might move back or get kicked out of the country.

you don't have to look at stats to realize how frustrating this is for startup founders. anyone who has done a startup with an international cofounder (i've done one where both my cofounders were international), you know how much of a pointless hassle this is. you can look for stats on this and it may or may not show the severity of the emigration problem, but this is a real and frustrating thing to deal with. it's just the wrong thing founders should be worrying about.

personally, i don't think this will cause a major increase in emigration (although it's hard to define "major"), but you're forcing students who would prefer to do a startup to go work for a large company (one that will sponsor their visa) out of school.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#54

Post by nir »

edelweiss wrote: post #39
tokenadult wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally know people who have already moved out of the US to places like Singapore and India May I ask some follow-up questions to make sure I understand your point of view on this issue? Are you referring to people who are originally from Singapore or India, or to people from third countries who settle in Singapore or India rather than settling in the United States? How does the number of those persons compare t…

Why I left my country (USA)to become an immigrant in Vienna Austria. Indeed, why would anyone leave their home for new laws, different language, different foods, different social customs. The very same reason both my great grandfathers left Ireland to come to America, opportunity, and a better way of life! Our family are all US born citizens. I am a registered republican, highly educated, and have founded 2 successfu…

I can understand Americans who move to places like Brazil or India in search of opportunity, but it's surprising to see central Europe as a destination. (I'm not American nor European, but live in NYC and worked in the EU).

I doubt Germany, Austria and France are churning out more scientists & engineers than the US. They most definitely are not churning out more entrepreneurs. In fact they're barely producing a next generation - these are aging demographics, and their advanced social benefits (which in general I support) will be especially hard to sustain when there aren't enough working age tax payers around.

Pretty much every criticism of American government & big business easily applies to these nations, and in addition they are also now tethered to corrupt governments like Greece and malfunctioning economies like Spain and Ireland.

Visit NYC and Silicon Valley, and you'll find EU expats who come there to fulfill their entrepreneurial ambitions. TThat's part of the reason a "startup visa" is even an issue in the US.* You don't hear much talk of startup visas in Europe - not because it's easier to migrate there, simply because there aren't thousands of people who want to move there and start companies.

There isn't a single place in Europe that's even close to Silicon Valley or even Boston in terms of startup environment. America has a lot of problems, but the EU is at least in as bad a shape.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#55

Post by robeastham »

tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

Chile perhaps? Check out this government sponsored initiative:

http://www.startupchile.org/

Seems like the Ministry of Economy is really serious about attracting founders from outside Chile. Each founder gets a $40,000 dollar grant for a six month stay which includes some great mentoring along with basic office space. I believe there is no requirement to stay in Chile after the six months is up. I guess the Chilean government is just hoping you'll like it there so much you'll want to stay and continue to base your business there. I was a chatting with a friend just last night who lives in Santiago in Chile. He told me they are expanding the scheme this year to an intake of over 100. I have to say he made the lifestyle out there sound very tempting. He said you can live comfortably on $20,000 per year - perfect for a lean startup.

Made me seriously consider the possibility of applying and taking my new startup there:

http://www.mightycv.com

Well that's if they'd have me of course.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#56

Post by ajju »

ajays wrote: post #27

I have stopped reading what Vivek writes. It almost feels like he's writing inflammatory articles just to keep his name in print. I came to this country (US) more than 20 years ago. The I.N.S. (Immigration and Naturalization Service) were as big dicks then as they are now. Nothing has changed. It's just plain old government bureaucracy; but in this instance, their clients can't vote either, so there's no fear of a ba…

Wouldn't you have preferred to get your greencard in 2 or 3 years instead of 11? I know it would have made my life quite a bit easier as a co-founder. I would have started up 4 years earlier.

The argument is not (yet) about whether the U.S. is a better place to start a startup than India or China. It clearly is. The argument is about whether it is worth America's while to make it easier for immigrants to start startups. It's hard to argue that for the right definition of a startup (legal, with a real chance of making money, scalable) it wouldn't be in America's interests to make it easier. In the worst case there's an immigrant who is not competing for "scarce jobs", in the best case he/she is creating jobs.*

*O.K. I cheated - in the worst case fears of those against this idea, you have a non-productive individual immigrating here on the pretext of a startup and doing nothing/leeching off of society etc, but if you find a good enough 'qualifier' (e.g. Grad degree from the U.S. and/or V.C. investment a la startup visa) this kind of thing can be minimized to where it approaches zero.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#57

Post by wheels »

tptacek wrote: post #19
tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

It is difficult for foreigners to start companies in the EU, even modulo the fact that it's somewhat difficult for residents to start companies in parts of the EU. I don't know anything about Asian immigration, but I know a very little bit about EU policies, and I don't think they're a competitive threat to us here.

Huh? This sounds totally wrong to me.

The UK and Germany, the two strongest EU startup countries, both already have founders visas and there's nothing special about a foreigner owning shares in a Ltd or GmbH, the respective equivalents of a US incorporation.

Also, in my experience, founding a UK Ltd is even easier than doing a US Inc if for no other reason than that you don't have to deal with both federal and state institutions as in the US. The stuff that the Companies House sends you is super straight-forward (impressively so, other countries should take note), and can be done mostly online. Germany is (surprise!) more bureaucratic and things take a bit longer, but it's still not rocket surgery.

On the whole immigration and getting permanent residence is much easier in both countries. The UK has a point system for highly skilled immigrants, and you can get permanent residence in both in 5 years without having had to stick around at a single employer.

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#58

Post by nir »

kmfrk wrote: post #50
ajays wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be arguing two orthogonal points here. On the one hand, you're saying that America's future will suffer dire consequences if the immigration system is not fixed. On the other hand, you're saying it is such a hardship that people have to go back when their visas expire, things are tough for immigrants, etc. Just step back a little and think rationally a little. If things are so bad, then why _are_ people t…

cooldeal's criticism is that your world view is binary; there is no "better" or "worse", only "broken" and "just dandy". The problem argued is that the system prevents people from starting a business in the U.S. - something a "rational" person who is able to "comprehend" wouldn't conflate with everyone being prevented from starting a business. The system could be better. That's hardly a controversial statement. One o…

His worldview isn't binary. He's merely providing some perspective by pointing out the system has been similarly broken for a while and apparently startups have still been starting up all the while.

As a non-American without Green Card, I still think the startup visa is dubious. People who really want to do software startups in the US have been doing it for a while (typical example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Kahn ). I strongly doubt the US government (or board of VCs etc) will be able to predict success when deciding who should get the startup visas and the employment argument isn't convincing. Reddit, YC's most successful company, employs about 4 people I think?

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#59

Post by aashpak1 »

ajays wrote: post #45
cooldeal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I waited 11 years, if it makes you feel better. And yes, I do know the difference between then and now. And you know why it's worse now? Because the demand is much higher! So, despite the INS's dickitude and the so-called "broken" immigration policies, MORE people are wanting to come here. Are you saying that just because people faced hardship earlier, it shouldn't be made easier now? If anything, the numbers show t…

You seem to be arguing two orthogonal points here. On the one hand, you're saying that America's future will suffer dire consequences if the immigration system is not fixed. On the other hand, you're saying it is such a hardship that people have to go back when their visas expire, things are tough for immigrants, etc. Just step back a little and think rationally a little. If things are so bad, then why _are_ people t…

>> And during these 20 years, we've been through the Biotech boom, Internet boom, and are on the verge of another boom

Are you missing the possibility that there might have been more/better booms and outcomes if immigration laws were not as fucked up?

Re: Why Silicon Valley Immigrant Entrepreneurs Are Returning Home

#60

Post by lsb »

robeastham wrote: post #55
tokenadult wrote: post #7

Yet another Vivek Wadhwa story with his same pet theme. Here is my question: is there any Vivek Wadhwa story on this issue in which he shows detailed figures for NET immigration flows into and out of the United States in comparison to countries like China and India? Or does he consistently do as I have seen him do here and in other stories, relating individual anecdotes and asserting the existence of a problem (too f…

Chile perhaps? Check out this government sponsored initiative: http://www.startupchile.org/ Seems like the Ministry of Economy is really serious about attracting founders from outside Chile. Each founder gets a $40,000 dollar grant for a six month stay which includes some great mentoring along with basic office space. I believe there is no requirement to stay in Chile after the six months is up. I guess the Chilean g…

If you think a spartan grad school life is comfortable (I do ), it's easy to live in Boston on $20k a year, if you're intensely working on a startup around Davis Sq.
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