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Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

reuters.com

391–400 of 544 posts

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#391
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to compare the deaths you need to count them in the same way, and you haven't done so here.

Well it’s fair to say that neither has the government, if anyone dies in possession of COVID they’re automatically a COVID death, pretty much even if they get hit by a truck. That’s not true of the flu is it?

No, because people die every day and no tests are run if they had the virus.

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#392
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's spreading so very fast, and nobody has any pre-existing immunity to this new disease. The flu kills 60,000 Americans every year and so far COVID has killed about 10,000 -- over roughly the same flu season time period. The difference is that the flu is spread out over time and is fighting some pre-existing immunity and flu shots. It also has a lot to do with excess capacity. If there suddenly appeared a n…

So far Covid has killed 34,000 not 10,000 in the States.

[deleted]

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#393
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far Covid has killed 34,000 not 10,000 in the States.

Thanks, I grabbed the wrong column from my data. Either way that’s half the flu total over the same season. My point is that it isn’t unprecedented load, it’s just all at once — and additive.

That number only includes deaths in hospital of confirmed cases, a lot of people are dying at home particularly of heart attacks induced by oxygen starvation. The data from New York looking at excess deaths compared to the same period last year indicates that the actual number of Covid-19 related deaths is probably around double that.

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#394

Random testing in Germany has also revealed higher than expected rates of people with antibodies. Their IFR (infected fatality rate) was 2% overall based on non-random testing. Random testing has yielded an IFR or 0.37%. This does not increase the risk. These tests only test people who had coronavirus. The larger this portion, the more herd immunity there is in the population. It implies that there were a larger than…

If 0.37% is true, why are the hospitals in this shape?

The majority of people that end up in hospitals actually survive the virus. Their symptoms are treated, not the causes, unfortunately. But you have to take these people in as they have (among other things) respiratory complications, hence the great demand for ventilators incidentally.

Infection Fatality Rate is certainly coupled to the number of people that develop severe symptoms, but it's not this number that you need to look at as to why people end up in hospitals.

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#395
post #370
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands has 3.3k deaths vs 29k confirmed cases, which would give a CFR of ~10% I.e. the Netherlands aren't testing much. A 10x reduction there brings it back to the CFR range we see in countries with bigger testing programs. I'm not a specialist but have been following this for a while, and have yet to see evidence the IFR for this isnt around 0.5-1% (assuming decent healthcare). That's what we saw in the Dia…

Dutch testing policy is acknowledged by national bodies to not be representative at all. Moreover, so is our death rate. We have a lot of hidden deaths of elderly people who decide not to go through the trauma of an ICU stint and instead decide to die at home. I don't recall exact numbers but think it was estimated the true death toll is about 50 to 100 percent higher.

Pneumonia patients in hospital have their blood oxygen continuously monitored, with alarms if it goes too low because the symptoms of oxygen starvation are very hard to spot even by a trained nurse, but can be rapidly fatal. The most common cause of death is heart attack because the heart isn't getting enough oxygen. So these people dying at home probably think they're not at serious risk and don't want to take up a hospital bed from someone in a worse condition, so they try to tough it out but then they suddenly die.

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be realistic though. Given the way that this virus promiscuously spreads, if a relatively large portion of individuals weren't generally asymptomatic, by now we would have approximately zero healthcare workers.

I think you underestimate how effective proper sterile technique is. If all the equipment is available, and the staff appropiately trained, there should be a very small chance of becoming infected. In some countries this is not the case, but some places have demonstrated that they can keep their frontline workers from getting infected.

I think you overestimate the knowledge we had about covid-19, especially in the early days. Why are there even any doctors standing at all in Wuhan?

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#397
post #378

Random testing in Germany has also revealed higher than expected rates of people with antibodies. Their IFR (infected fatality rate) was 2% overall based on non-random testing. Random testing has yielded an IFR or 0.37%. This does not increase the risk. These tests only test people who had coronavirus. The larger this portion, the more herd immunity there is in the population. It implies that there were a larger than…

Though that study has been criticized for the use of antibodies with cross-reaction with other Coronaviruses, so the numbers aren‘t necessarily to be trusted.

But that criticism was unfounded as the actual method was not even published at that point in time.

But back-of-the-envelope calculation gives this: Even if that test was only 95% specific, there would still be a 10% spread of actual positive cases.

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#398
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Washington Post managed to get the original letter: https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/status/1250840016806445056 It's pretty clear he was canned by a political appointee for political reasons.

Yes and no. He was relieved because he went around the chain of command, which is a universal career-ending move in the military even if you do it for all the right reasons—which he did. Also, although he was relieved of command, he wasn’t “fired” or “canned” or discharged from the Navy. He will undoubtedly go into an early retirement with a full pension at his current rank of Captain. That doesn’t change the fundame…

Do you mean e-mailing your commander's commander is a universal career-ending move in the navy?

Or was he discharged on evidence or assumption he leaked to the press himself?

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#399
post #181
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity's understanding of this disease is much more sophisticated than the two comments above this would imply. Researchers are not stupidly looking at Diamond Princess and getting confused because the population is old. Rather it's a powerful dataset because it enables us to quantify the asymptomatic people of all ages, because people were tested fairly exhaustively before being allowed leave, regardless of sympto…

"Humanity's understanding of this disease is much more sophisticated than the two comments above this would imply." I think we can generalize this to pretty much every comment made in this thread, and others like it, regardless of how certain some of them sound.

And quite a few other threads, too :-(

Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free

#400

Random testing in Germany has also revealed higher than expected rates of people with antibodies. Their IFR (infected fatality rate) was 2% overall based on non-random testing. Random testing has yielded an IFR or 0.37%. This does not increase the risk. These tests only test people who had coronavirus. The larger this portion, the more herd immunity there is in the population. It implies that there were a larger than…

If 0.37% is true, why are the hospitals in this shape?

One possible explanation is that hospitals were already operating close to capacity. So even adding a small number (percentage-wise) of the population very fast, will cause disasters.
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