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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#251
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's Enterprise only. Everyone else is forced to act as Microsofts QA department, inplace of their long since dismantled actual QA department.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18156955 Been working fine for me since October 2018 for dual boot gaming & firmware updates. It will update to the latest version of LTSC when you start up. Works with the latest hardware too, I am using it with a 5700xt (released last July, purchased in December) and a Ryzen 7 (also released last year). Only thing missing is the new Microsoft Store, if you search for it there's…

I'm that guy! :p

Very happy that I've helped someone.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what has users gained by that? For the past 5 years or so, I don't exactly know anything worth it from users' perspective. Getting third party app updates are enough to increase productivity.

One of the high-impact changes (which broke Nix as the grand-grand parent mentioned) was moving / to a read-only volume: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210650 Although this change may not be immediately visible it does increase security a fair bit (malware cannot embed themselves or replace system files) and also prevents accidental deletion. Apple made large strides in the last few years improving security, e.g.…

I was using since 10.3 and my, 10.5 introduced Quick Look, Time Machine, Boot Camp, Spaces and folder popup in dock which made me feel it has become totally good enough for daily use. Then 10.6 optimized the entire OS when I was surprised that a new OS release actually required less disk space to install and more performant on a same hardware.

I agree some of those security features are good to have but it's like they forgot about adding anything worthy from users' perspective.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#253
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what has users gained by that? For the past 5 years or so, I don't exactly know anything worth it from users' perspective. Getting third party app updates are enough to increase productivity.

MacOS doesn’t exist for users these days, it’s only there to let you debug iOS programs.

Actually, it does. Third party apps are still very good. I cannot think about using Windows for web development for quite a while. The OS would be fine if it won't get in the way.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#254
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people, any non-normal state == bricked. Especially now, when the genius bar isn't open. And yes, there's a difference between a soft brick and a hard brick, and it depends on your ability to repair. Getting my phone stuck in a bootloop is usually a soft brick, but my Pixel went into one a few years ago for no apparent reason (likely mobo failure) and that was beyond my capacity to repair or diagnose, so…

I have literally never heard the term "soft brick" before. You're just describing "broken".

It is the sort of nonsense we have to put up with when people start abusing a well-established term to get attention rather than to convey information -- though, in this case, it seems some machines really have been bricked.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#255
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

If you go that route, "bricked" is now indistinguishable from "broke," and we already have a word for that. Broke. We would have then gone from a situation where we had two different states and names for each of those states to a situation where we have two words for the very same, very fuzzy state and no way to talk about the other state. It makes a mockery of the idea of advice. Imagine your parents calling you and…

As much as I would like precise and accurate language, the reality is that people have varying degrees of knowledge of any field. That is why computer technicians and doctors alike have to ask deeper questions when making a diagnosis.

Even within a field, people may have slightly different interpretations of what a word means. Take consumer electronics. Say someone plugged in the wrong power supply and blew an inductor. If you don't know what a power supply filter is, it's garbage. If you do know what's going on, it's a simple repair. Now look at the case of a bad firmware update, where the device cannot reach recovery mode. Someone with a knowledge of embedded software development may know how to fix that, particularly if they have connections with the vendor. Most people will consider it damaged beyond repair. The thing is, you can have one person who is knowledgeable about software and another about electronics having entirely different interpretations of what bricked means. The only real commonality in the definition is, "I cannot repair it." For someone with negligible knowledge about how consumer electronics, that is going to have a very broad application.

Personally, I think that bricked means that it can only be repaired with specialized tools (including soldering irons or JTAG interfaces). But hey, I'm sure a lot of people would beg to differ.

EDIT: missing don't.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this is a feature, not a bug. I come here for the hacker lens, often on what I've already read elsewhere. Sometimes while reading an article I silently curse the load time or layout or terminology. Then I see others here discussing that. HN does not disappoint.

Yes. People on reddit are too boring serious and straight to the point. Here on HN we can have a link about some programming language and we start discussing about physics, the Universe or cats. Much more creative. :)

People on reddit are serious ? Which subs are you following ? All I see everywhere there is one word comments such as @nice, @oof,..etc and witty remarks. The discussion quality on HN is far better. Granted we do nitpick here though..

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#257
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

If you go that route, "bricked" is now indistinguishable from "broke," and we already have a word for that. Broke. We would have then gone from a situation where we had two different states and names for each of those states to a situation where we have two words for the very same, very fuzzy state and no way to talk about the other state. It makes a mockery of the idea of advice. Imagine your parents calling you and…

You mean advil? Aspirin is most definitely not ibuprofen. Or is this just proving the point note that language does matter a lot.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#258
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. From Dictionary.app that comes standard with the Mac: "a smartphone or other electronic device that has completely ceased to function"

Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. And they are almost invariably approximations except when explicitly specifying otherwise, and outside of the the more lavish of the unabridged dictionaries are also almost in invariably simplified, both in the number of definitions of any term presented and often the individual definitions, for brevity at the expense of accuracy.

Case in point: "literally" meaning both literally and metaphorically

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#260
Well, I've upgraded my personal macbook to Catalina (this update) and nothing seems wrong... yet.

OTOH, my work machine (a 2016 Macbook Pro) is stuck on Mojave (due to incompatible third-party software) and the latest "Security Update 2020-002" broke video conferencing. Right in the middle of a pandemic forcing everybody to work from home!

Of course, this being Apple, I'm not holding my breath for a fix anytime soon. They don't seem to release individual updates anymore, and even these bundled "Supplemental Updates" are few and far between.

Apple really needs to get its act together regarding macOS. People need macOS to actually be productive, unless they'd rather lose this segment completely to Microsoft.

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