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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#211

Post by encom »

jsjddbbwj wrote: post #179
encom wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What OS X and Windows, IOS, Android and probably lots of others need, is Long Term Support releases. I'm so sick and tired of my phone and computer switching up major features and UI every year, because some UX person wants to not get fired. Releasing a new major version of your OS yearly is insane.

Windows has LTSC

Yes, but it's Enterprise only. Everyone else is forced to act as Microsofts QA department, inplace of their long since dismantled actual QA department.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#212

Post by Aaargh20318 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #78
cutler wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there's no way Catalina is ever going on any of my machines. Apple has hit a real low-point with this release.

Just an anecdote but it's been rock solid for me and fixed a number of issues I had with Mojave.

Same here, no issues whatsoever.

You hear these complaints with every macOS release, but they are probably a very small vocal minority. I've never run into any of the reported problems nor have my 20-odd colleagues.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#213

Post by CPLX »

DeathArrow wrote: post #204
irjustin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. I'd like to keep it this way even to the general lay person. Because if you need hardware the barrier to entry goes up significantly. Agreed that 'bricked' is not the right term here.

A good definition of bricked is "software update rendered the computer unusable for the user".

Indeed. Or two be even more precise, renders the computer functionally equivalent to a brick.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#214

Post by cageface »

b15h0p wrote: post #167

I had a problem with the latest iOS update too: after installing 13.4.1 it booted to a white screen with „swipe up to upgrade“ at the bottom. Swiping up crashed the device. Every couple of minutes it would reboot and be back to the white screen. I did a factory reset via finder and that worked. As soon as I restored the iCloud backup: back to the white screen. I had to revert to 13.4 and could then restore the backup…

13.4 failed on my phone and I had to do a manual clean restore via my Mac. Then 13.4.1 did the same thing and this time I had to do a DFU restore to get it functioning again. Not fun when taking it in to get it fixed is not an option.

I'm still getting freezes on my brand new 2019 MBP due to the still unfixed GPU switching bug and I don't dare install any macOS updates now.

Apple has had a lot of software quality issues in recent years but this is a new low.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#215

Post by j4yav »

huffmsa wrote: post #183
j4yav wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the power system in your house bricked if you don't know how to reset the fuse? Is your car bricked if your battery dies and you need help to replace it? Maybe, but this sounds really strange to my ears. I think for me the difference between bricked and non bricked is the expense of the repair, and maybe if it's more than the value of the device. If the wiring in your house is all melted after lightning strike the…

For a lot of people, any non-normal state == bricked. Especially now, when the genius bar isn't open. And yes, there's a difference between a soft brick and a hard brick, and it depends on your ability to repair. Getting my phone stuck in a bootloop is usually a soft brick, but my Pixel went into one a few years ago for no apparent reason (likely mobo failure) and that was beyond my capacity to repair or diagnose, so…

In my experience people call those sorts of things broken or not working, rather than (soft or hard) bricked. So people would say things like "the power went out in my house and soft bricked my TV until the power company turned it back on"? It's interesting how language evolves.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#216

Post by Myrmornis »

sv9 wrote: post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

It's partly the threading structure. If you ignore s subtree that seems uninteresting I think that helps what you're talking about.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#217

Post by blunderkid »

DeathArrow wrote: post #205
sv9 wrote: post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

Ask some philosophers "what you need to do to have a good life?". They will start discussing: "What is life?" "What is good?" "What is need?" "What is you?" "What is what?" And those discussions will never end unless the time itself ends.

Well put sistah!

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#218

Post by chaos_a »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #127
kbumsik wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess two reasons: 1. The OS update policies became more "agile". Both Windows and macOS starts to update the OS more often than ever. macOS moved to an annual update from biannual, Windows 10 switched to a subscription-like model. 2. They laid off the testing team and stopped testing on actual PCs in favor of VMs. [1] It makes sense considering the broken updates are often more low-level bugs that cannot be caught…

> They laid off the testing team Must be good for the bottom line. The cost is absorbed by the unlucky users.

It's another case of focusing on the short term to save money. In the long term it damages their reputation and some frustrated businesses/users might start to consider moving away from their products if a viable alternative exists.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#219

Post by wlll »

huffmsa wrote: post #183
j4yav wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the power system in your house bricked if you don't know how to reset the fuse? Is your car bricked if your battery dies and you need help to replace it? Maybe, but this sounds really strange to my ears. I think for me the difference between bricked and non bricked is the expense of the repair, and maybe if it's more than the value of the device. If the wiring in your house is all melted after lightning strike the…

For a lot of people, any non-normal state == bricked. Especially now, when the genius bar isn't open. And yes, there's a difference between a soft brick and a hard brick, and it depends on your ability to repair. Getting my phone stuck in a bootloop is usually a soft brick, but my Pixel went into one a few years ago for no apparent reason (likely mobo failure) and that was beyond my capacity to repair or diagnose, so…

I have literally never heard the term "soft brick" before. You're just describing "broken".

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#220

Post by biddlesby »

hypervis0r wrote: post #194
gregmac wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

The problem with this 'it is relative' line of logic is that everything can be relative. We need terms that describe stuff regardless of how people perceive it. Otherwise, as you said, 'bricked' can mean almost anything. So what's the point of using a word without any particular meaning?

Exactly this
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