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From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

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Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#321
post #233

Fruit and veg 'will run out' unless Britain charters planes to fly in farm workers from eastern Europe. UK urgently needs 90,000 labourers to pick crops that will otherwise die in the fields, warns charity. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/28/fruit-an...

With 3 million people in the UK still without work that want it - and many more laid off, redundant or self-employed without clients, the solution should be obvious. Pay a decent wage and you'll get the people. The era of cheap labour is over.

I don’t think English people want to do this kind of work ...

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this is a golden opportunity for east european countries to grow their agro industry. COVID now gives legal grounds to keep workers in their own country, so they neither catch the virus nor enjoy british racism. This can help their economies as well.

There's plenty of agricultural industry in EE (at least in Poland), it's just that it pays a pittance, so the locals prefer to go west, while farmers employ migrants from poorer countries.

That's such a fucked up cycle.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, with everyone being at home, and a lot of bullshit tasks being eliminated/deferred (my driver's license is automatically good for an extra 6 months), caloric demand is probably down 10%. As our muscles atrophy, basal metabolic rates will decrease too. Undetermined what kind of hit to population COVID will cause, but I'm estimating <1%.

demand is up in my house, proximity to food storage seems to trump caloric needs

Same here. For God's sake. I am more worried about getting diabetes than coronavirus. :p

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people that do it, do it because they have no better option. Not because they want to. Isn't that most people in their current job?

Yes, but I would say as you go down in income, there’s almost zero of “wanting” to do the job and mostly “needing” to do it. Whereas an engineer might answer that they like the work they do, I doubt someone bending over all day and picking strawberries would.

I've been dirt poor for years. I'm a freelance writer by trade. I like writing. I've always wanted to be a writer. I hate being poor, of course.

I've been told for years to "go get a real job." I'm medically handicapped. For that and other reasons I can't readily "just go get a real job."

The fact that you hate the working conditions and pay doesn't mean you inherently hate the work. There are people who garden as a relaxing and enjoyable hobby.

The assumption that all poorly paid people hate their work and all well paid people enjoy their work sounds like classist prejudice to me.

I knew someone (a programmer, in fact) who made good money, got fed up with the job and they we're told by someone close to them "You can't just up and quit. A job at Home Depot wouldn't even cover your car payment."

I've also seen stuff on the internet from people who are miserable, desperately want to change jobs and feel stuck because they make good money and can't readily walk away from their good income. They have family to support or college loans to pay or whatever.

What you find is that even people who are overall happy will bitch about their job or whatever, if only because it's a socially acceptable bonding ritual. Bragging to the miserable people around you about how everything in your life works wonderfully well all the time is a good way to get everyone to hate you.

There are real quality of life issues for low paid work, farm labor work, etc. But there are farm laborers who live in Mexico and work the fields in the US because they like living in Mexico, they have no desire to move to America and it pays ten times better than jobs in their town.

Not all of these people feel exploited or victimized. Exploitation isn't a good thing in any job, but it's not somehow the inherently part of doing physical labor and inherently not part of the picture for jobs with better public perception.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#325

Got a butternut squash in your pantry? Maybe a couple of tomatoes? Cook it up for dinner and save some seeds! Wash off the pulp and dry them out on a paper towel. It's not too late to start some seedlings, and it's a nice way to pass the time. I've also been experimenting with different dried beans that we stocked up on, and most of them have a pretty high germination rate. Roma beans are super tasty and high in prot…

Is there any simple way to speed up / increase chances of germination (of tomatoes, beans, peas, lentils, pumpkins)? E.g. by covering the soil (where the seeds are) with paper / plastic / cloth (as a makeshift greenhouse, to increase temperature and/or humidity), or something similar?

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#326

Low wages for field workers (e.g. picking berries) has stunted automation of these tasks, though I think we're now at the level of robotics (especially computer vision) where it's feasible.

There was a recent Planet Money episode[1] about this.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821593542/episode-984-food-an...

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#327
post #315

Got a butternut squash in your pantry? Maybe a couple of tomatoes? Cook it up for dinner and save some seeds! Wash off the pulp and dry them out on a paper towel. It's not too late to start some seedlings, and it's a nice way to pass the time. I've also been experimenting with different dried beans that we stocked up on, and most of them have a pretty high germination rate. Roma beans are super tasty and high in prot…

Thanks for this! Can you recommend some simple concise instructions on growing tomatoes? I’ve explored a little in the past, but always seemed to run into fairly impenetrable instructions. A basic list of what to buy (in non-gardeners’ terminology) and some simple instructions would be great.

I'd be happy to! Tomatoes are super forgiving and are a great place to start.

The easiest thing is to pick up a seed packet at a garden supply store. I buy most of mine online or from Stokes. Drying out seeds is fairly easy, but seed packets are less work.

For starting seedlings you only need a few simple supplies. Ideally you have very light, "airy", soil. This usually sold as "seed starter" mix. You can make do with normal potting soil, or even whatever you can scrounge up from outside, but the seedling has to push its way up to the surface. So if your soil is chunky, or has stuff like woodchips in it, a seedling might struggle to breach the surface. A cheap way to make seed sprouting mix is to pass dry soil through a sifter. You can dry soil in the oven at a low temperature, but it's a bit stinky.

You should plant each seed around a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch deep in the soil. I usually lightly poke the soil with my pinky, drop one seed in the hole, and brush some surrounding soil over top. The important thing here is to leave the soil as loose as possible, so don't compact the soil at all if you can help it. Like I mentioned above, the sprout has to poke its way out all on its own, and it's not very strong. You can plant it deeper, but it'll take longer to reach the surface, or may not at all.

The ideal place to plant seedlings is in a covered seed tray, though any type of pot will do. If you have a bigger pot, you can plant a bunch of seeds in the same pot. You'd be surprised how big a plant can get in a tiny pot (maybe 2 cubic inches) before running out of space to spread its roots. If you have a good liquid fertilizer (I have a big jug from a hydroponic supply store that I've been going through for two years now) you can basically grow it anything. Some people use clay pellets or rockwool. A plant needs something to hold onto as it grows. Soil is convenient in that it provides both structure and nutrients, and it's what you already have outside.

Keep your seedlings in a warm place and never let them dry out. I like using a spray bottle to avoid disturbing the soil when things are just getting started. A covered seed tray keeps the moisture and heat in. Plastic wrap, or some other clear cover works fine in a pinch.

Once the plants start getting their "true leaves", i.e. the second set of leaves that look different from the initial seedling leaves, you can remove the cover to give it space to reach up.

Most tomatoes need staking (one wooden stake is ideal, bamboo is great, metal cages are common but I find them annoying) to keep them upright once they start getting flowers. Loosely tie the plant to the stake with yarn or twine.

If you intend on keep your tomatoes in a pot instead of the ground or some sort of raised bed, make sure the pot is fairly large and either has a drainage hole or some rocks at the bottom of it for water to pool. You never want the soil to be soupy.

----

Edit: not super concise, sorry about that :) Feel free to ask any questions you might have. Also, don't be afraid to experiment. I was lucky enough to have a mother who grew up on a farm teach me most of what I know, but it really just boils down to:

light + nutrients + water + heat = food

The art is knowing how much of each.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#328
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second link goes to a still image. I assume you mean this [1] video? Though I don't see how that supports the statement that China has spent a big portion of its national reserve. [1] https://twitter.com/laurie_garrett/status/122072527639456563...

China imports a gigantic amount of food, and ports were first to be hit by disruption . As a person who works in OEM electronics in China, I can tell at least that. So, at any normal day, China would've been eating 30-32% of world's food by value, while producing 20% of it by itself. Agriculture has been on shutdown for the past 2.5 months. Farms have slaughtered a large portion of their livestock, and a big portion…

> Agriculture has been on shutdown for the past 2.5 months.

Can you explain that in more relevant terms? AFAIK agriculture has been shut down in the US for the past 2.5 months as well (actually more like past 5-6 months), simply because it's not the growing season.

What are the different growing seasons in China, for different kinds of crops?

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#329
post #325

Got a butternut squash in your pantry? Maybe a couple of tomatoes? Cook it up for dinner and save some seeds! Wash off the pulp and dry them out on a paper towel. It's not too late to start some seedlings, and it's a nice way to pass the time. I've also been experimenting with different dried beans that we stocked up on, and most of them have a pretty high germination rate. Roma beans are super tasty and high in prot…

Is there any simple way to speed up / increase chances of germination (of tomatoes, beans, peas, lentils, pumpkins)? E.g. by covering the soil (where the seeds are) with paper / plastic / cloth (as a makeshift greenhouse, to increase temperature and/or humidity), or something similar?

Heat and consistent moisture. I keep some of my seedlings under grow lights in my furnace room beside my servers. Plastic seed trays with clear tops are excellent to reduce evaporation.

Electric heat mats are awesome to stick under seed trays in the sprouting stage.

In my experience, heat is the most significant accelerator for germination. You also want very loose and light soil to help the seeds poke out as easily as possible. "Seed starter" mix is ideal, see my other comment in this subthread for more on that.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#330
post #52

So we have labour shortages in countryside and unemployed people in urban centers. Problem?

The only reason people are unemployed is that they are confined in their homes.

Once they can head to the countryside to pick strawberries, chances are they can just head back to their regular job too.

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