From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#151

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #84

jopsen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 20 USD/hour I think you would be able to fill these jobs. But if you want to make that salary picking fruit, then we'll have to pay more for it -- or you'll need to have some automation to increase productivity. I doubt we'll want to pay more, consumers would rather buy imports instead.

Everything I have ever read indicates that white Americans don't want farm labor jobs even if you pay $20/hour.

What people want to do work that damaged their body, is subject to short term changes in demand due to weather and has high income instability, and leads to no future growth?

$20/hour for temporary backbreaking work in exchange for not being near friends or family, having to move constantly, having to live in a rural area (not what most people want), having no upward income mobility.

The people that do it, do it because they have no better option. Not because they want to.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#152

Post by luxuryballs » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #110

aazaa wrote: post #60

> From Huelva to Hamburg and Newcastle to Naples, Europe’s farmers are struggling to find people to bring in rapidly ripening fruits and vegetables, which frequently must be hand-picked, usually within a window of just a few days. They typically rely on seasonal workers from eastern Europe or northern Africa, but fears of the coronavirus are keeping hundreds of thousands of migrant laborers from leaving home, and con…

If they can't get picked in time, they can can them, freeze them or dry them. Some will spoil beyond recovery, but not all has to be lost either.

uh you have to pick it before you can preserve it

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#153

Post by phenkdo » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

korijn wrote: post #144

phenkdo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I think your keyboard bravado will vanish once you start paying 60-70% of salary for just basic necessities. And even if I were to concede that you - presumably high paid tech workers - were willing & able, imagine the fate of the pensioners, bus drivers, retail workers...they barely make ends meet as it is.

So we should continue exploiting, is what you are saying?

I am not thrilled about the situation, but the alternative, unfortunately, is far worse. The people in Ukraine/Moldova etc. will go deeper into poverty, and people in the west will have to contend with sky-high inflation.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#154

Post by KarlKemp » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

banmeagaindan2 wrote: post #88

aazaa wrote: post #60

> From Huelva to Hamburg and Newcastle to Naples, Europe’s farmers are struggling to find people to bring in rapidly ripening fruits and vegetables, which frequently must be hand-picked, usually within a window of just a few days. They typically rely on seasonal workers from eastern Europe or northern Africa, but fears of the coronavirus are keeping hundreds of thousands of migrant laborers from leaving home, and con…

I am up for doing some fruit picking if it can be organized correctly. The strategy of allowing in migrant labour would be a political fiasco.

You missed the part where it was always migrant labor that did this work? The article is specifically about the fiasco of not letting in these people. Or, more accurately, these people saying “no thanks” to the prospect of working for minimum wage while risking their lives.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#155

Post by luxuryballs » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #148

dirtyid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely coming to the US too, big suppliers are ringing very small producers to fill in orders because US can't get any Mexican farmhands in. Canada is exempting and flying in migrant labours. There's also panic in meat supply chains with Tyson strikes. I'd like to think Canada is safe but prices would probably get nutty if there's excess US demand unless we ban exports. Also migrant labours live like sardines, 20+ sh…

On the other hand, with everyone being at home, and a lot of bullshit tasks being eliminated/deferred (my driver's license is automatically good for an extra 6 months), caloric demand is probably down 10%. As our muscles atrophy, basal metabolic rates will decrease too. Undetermined what kind of hit to population COVID will cause, but I'm estimating <1%.

demand is up in my house, proximity to food storage seems to trump caloric needs

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#156

Post by thyrsus » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

Low wages for field workers (e.g. picking berries) has stunted automation of these tasks, though I think we're now at the level of robotics (especially computer vision) where it's feasible.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#157

Post by nicoburns » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #133

banmeagaindan2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am up for doing some fruit picking if it can be organized correctly. The strategy of allowing in migrant labour would be a political fiasco.

My experience organizing groups for picking tells me this feel good effort doesn't work.

I'd be interested to hear more about what you think will go wrong. It seems like this is an important problem to solve.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#158

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

geniium wrote: post #130

Scoundreller wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it takes actual work to grow, harvest, and distribute crops. I look forward to the test of "Europeans don't want to do _____ work" when the shit-pay factor is removed.

That’s not just an “Europeans” problem.

[deleted]

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#159

Post by dwiel » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #70

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an idea, put everyone's half acres together, then use automation to reduce the labour needed, freeing people to do other useful work! We can share the food, and share the labour! This will work as long as some malevolent dick doesn't come along and decide they want more than their fair share ...

It'll be a common area people can share. We'll just need to avoid any sort of tragedy.

luckily there has been some research on averting such tragedies: https://wle.cgiar.org/content/elinor-ostrom-%E2%80%9Cnon-tra...

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#160

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #145

robk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't they just raising wages? There are many people who can work and need jobs simply a matter of finding the clearing price and passing it on to us consumers which I'm very happy to bear.

The price is set by wholesalers, especially supermarkets. I'm not convinced they can re-eqilibriate the market before the harvest spoils.

If the wholesalers want the product to sell it, then they will change the price so that it makes sense to harvest it.