From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#51

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

Some years ago, I saw a comedian mock the idea that immigrants were a threat to American jobs by joking that he had always wanted to be an underpaid farm laborer and can't make that dream work because the illegal immigrants took all those jobs.

In America, it used to be common for young men in high school and college to do construction work during the summer. Now, it's mostly immigrants.

When I was still a military wife, they changed the fitness test to be less stringent for younger members because they were having so much trouble getting qualified recruits. It really pissed my husband off because they didn't make his test any easier. He was in his thirties and was told "You've been working out for years. You are in the best shape of your life."

Developed countries are turning into nations of couch potatoes who turn their noses up at hard physical labor and probably couldn't do it if they wanted to. Or could but it would be extremely hard on them and there would be additional personal costs akin to training for a marathon.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#52

Post by chewz » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

So we have labour shortages in countryside and unemployed people in urban centers. Problem?

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#53

Post by jonnypotty » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

Farmers generally aren't the ones getting rich though are they? I think that says a lot.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#54

Post by Zenst » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

partingshots wrote: post #4

Doesn’t the Netherlands export the majority of Europe’s fresh food? As long as the supply chain doesn’t break down, I don’t see how it would be possible for Spain and Germany to run out of food. Especially since they’re all in the EU, even if the Netherlands wanted to close off their borders, there’s no way they really could.

Spain grows most of the fruit and veg, whilst the netherlands grow mostly flowers.

The demand for flowers has somewhat waned and recently saw an article of flower farmers in Africa suffering as nowhere to sell and case of piles of flowers composting away. The impact in that market will be very impacting.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#55

Post by dheera » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

To get past the paywall:

document.body.dataset.paywallOverlayStatus="hide";document.querySelector("#graphics-paywall-overlay").remove();

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#56

Post by dasil003 » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

This is such a weird comment, you might as well say no one forced humans to be such social creatures allowing viruses spread easily. People make relatively optimal local decisions based on the situation at hand. It's ludicrous to suggest they should have foreseen this situation and just paid more for labor. That kind of second-guessing could be applied to basically 90% of the world right now, and the other 10% just got lucky.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#57

Post by xienze » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

peterwoerner wrote: post #23

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

I mean, the market does. Most people won't pay an 50% on food because the farmers pay a living wage.

> I mean, the market does. Most people won't pay an 50% on food because the farmers pay a living wage.

I always get a chuckle hearing this talk from the sort of people pushing for $15/hr fast food wages.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#58

Post by roenxi » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

There is a faint whiff of hypocrisy in hiring foreign labour, it suggests to me that some sort of cash-in-hand deal is afoot that isn't in line with local labour practices.

This is a serious and concerning situation. However, it also has a certain schadenfreude of wealthy Europeans waking up in horror at having to pay local wages in excess of local social safety nets in order to grow their own food.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#59

Post by simion314 » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #8

Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though. It was just a simple decision for them: cheap labor that's available today or expensive labor... They mostly went with cheap, and now they don't have anyone available. Tough luck I guess, but it always was just a question of time until this happened.

>Nobody forced the farmers to become reliant on migrant workers though

They had the alternative to give up, maybe try to find a job in the city or suicide? I am wondering if you imagine this farmers having a big pile of cache because they cheeped out on workers.

Maybe I am wrong so please let me know what would you do if you own a farm and you can't find a job nearby, some people will abandon their homes and go in a big city to work there but not everyone can do that or enjoy working on some assembly line and live in a concrete block.

Re: From Spain to Germany, farmers warn of fresh food shortages

#60

Post by aazaa » Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

> From Huelva to Hamburg and Newcastle to Naples, Europe’s farmers are struggling to find people to bring in rapidly ripening fruits and vegetables, which frequently must be hand-picked, usually within a window of just a few days. They typically rely on seasonal workers from eastern Europe or northern Africa, but fears of the coronavirus are keeping hundreds of thousands of migrant laborers from leaving home, and controls on once-unfettered borders are stopping many of those willing to make the trip.

This is a recipe for shortage. Unlike funbucks dashed off by central banks without so much as breaking a sweat, it takes actual work to grow, harvest, and distribute crops. It also takes time.

All of these things can't be faked the way that currency can.