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Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

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Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#81

Post by koolba »

nexuist wrote: post #79
koolba wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since when do the unit metrics on this business add up? Never. Without VC money or gig workers who do not understand the costs of depreciation this model does not work for something as low margin as groceries. At 10% margin, which is insane for groceries, you’d need a $100+ order to breaking even the cost of delivery. Forget actually making a profit. And real margins are closer to 2-3%.

Over $100 is insane for groceries? We regularly spend that much for a family of three almost every weekend. Admittedly, we are in a high CoL area.

The 10% margins are what’d be insane. Not an individual bill of $100. At 2-3% the profits on that bill drop down to nowhere near enough to cover gas, mileage, health insurance, unemployment tax, and everything else tacked on for the true cost of delivery.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#82

Post by AlexandrB »

imgabe wrote: post #35
wpietri wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how the discussion can go so quickly go from "The mighty market solves all problems!" to, "The market is an incredibly fragile flower, and the slightest worker protections will result in mass unemployment and starvation!" Before Instacart, people went to the grocery store just fine. If Instacart has to pay workers a living wage, some people at the margins might return to shopping themselves, but I…

> It always amazes me how the discussion can go so quickly go from "The mighty market solves all problems!" to, "The market is an incredibly fragile flower, and the slightest worker protections will result in mass unemployment and starvation!" The market will continue to function just fine. It is just that the outcome of manipulating it is usually not what the manipulators intended. Suppose I thought that Instacart w…

> It is just that the outcome of manipulating it is usually not what the manipulators intended.

Citation needed on the "usually". Regulation sometimes goes wrong, but not "usually". Just look at things we take for granted like 40hr work weeks, no child labor, and health and safety protections for examples.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#83

Post by AlexandrB »

imgabe wrote: post #48
Ericson2314 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is. The labor market on its own cannot ensure a dignified existence—if the supply is to big people will stoop. Banning jobs doesn't help much yes, but that doesn't mean the market on its own is good. The action that does help is shrinking the supply. UBI so less need to work, or need to work as much.

Nobody can ensure dignity for someone else. You either conduct yourself with dignity or you don't.

Amazing insight. I hope we invent time travel so you can tell that to the slaves of various civilizations throughout history.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#84

Post by DoreenMichele »

imgabe wrote: post #4
claudeganon wrote: post #3

Sending these people into work, in the middle of a pandemic, without appropriate protective gear, health benefits, or paid time off is criminal and I’m glad they’re organizing to protect themselves. Hopefully other frontline employees in grocery and delivery services will follow suit.

Many grocery stores already have strong unions. Nobody is "sending in" gig workers. Isnt the whole point of gig work that the worker can choose whether to pick up a gig and go in or not?

It's an ideal I wish we would shoot for more consistently. It's wonderful when it works that way, but it's hardly the default norm for gig work.

I'm pro gig work. I've done it for about eight years and it made it possible for me to have earned income at all under enormously difficult circumstances (while ill and homeless).

But I'm also aware that it only works that way when the system is designed to allow for that. Many platforms aren't designed that way.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#85

Post by JumpCrisscross »

woofie11 wrote: post #39

I would rather pay a higher delivery fee and (1) have enough workers to deliver my goods (2) Have them (and me) protected adequately. The whole way delivery works is broken right now.

> I would rather pay a higher delivery fee

In New York, we have Caviar [1][2], a mid-tier to premium food-delivery company. They differentiated based on premium food. I haven't heard any complaints from their delivery staff, though this may be on account of their size.

Is there a premium player in the grocery delivery business? Something like FreshDirect, but with better service?

[1] https://www.trycaviar.com

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square,_Inc.#Caviar_restaurant...

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#86

Post by sabujp »

throwaway2019B wrote: post #76
sabujp wrote: post #21

Instacart's Web UI does not work. The search feature is completely broken and always shows a picture of the sad milk bottle, as is the update cart feature (before the shopper starts shopping) where you can search for an item and add it to your cart. I tried the same update cart feature in the app and while it is able to find items, tapping add to cart just shows the button depress animation and the item never gets ad…

I imagine you're being downvoted because your comment is incredibly irrelevant to the matter being discussed.

it's slightly relevant

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#87

Post by jessaustin »

aleksaxyz wrote: post #45
joejohnson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Instacart workers should encourage any scabs to instead join the strike so they can work together to demand better wages and conditions.

How do they find these new workers? Wait for them out at the grocery stores?

This whole process will be more difficult with 6-foot distancing and surgical masks.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#88

Post by jessaustin »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
samename wrote: post #2

It’s great that gig workers were included in the CARE bill. Hopefully this starts a trend of more bills including protections for gig workers. I fully support these workers striking for basic rights.

> It’s great that gig workers were included in the CARE bill. This was specifically advocated for by Senator Sanders. He threatened to tighten the restrictions even further on the $500 billion bailout of corporations if this condition was not met. https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/124303461436252569...

I want to admire him for that, but then I re-read that "$500 billion bailout of corporations" part. This movie was terrible the first time I was forced to watch it...

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#89

Post by imgabe »

AlexandrB wrote: post #82
imgabe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always amazes me how the discussion can go so quickly go from "The mighty market solves all problems!" to, "The market is an incredibly fragile flower, and the slightest worker protections will result in mass unemployment and starvation!" The market will continue to function just fine. It is just that the outcome of manipulating it is usually not what the manipulators intended. Suppose I thought that Instacart w…

> It is just that the outcome of manipulating it is usually not what the manipulators intended. Citation needed on the "usually". Regulation sometimes goes wrong, but not "usually". Just look at things we take for granted like 40hr work weeks, no child labor, and health and safety protections for examples.

Look at the industries where those regulations are most relevant and notice how most of the jobs in them have moved to countries where those regulations don't exist.

That's not to say we should go back to having children sewing our clothes in sweatshops (oh, we don't have to go back to to it, they still are, just in a different country now), but collectively people have decided that they don't want to pay what it costs to provide those benefits for workers.

Re: Instacart’s gig workers are planning a nationwide strike

#90

Post by taylorlapeyre »

cameronfraser wrote: post #40

Everlane workers tried to form a union and they were all fired https://twitter.com/EverlaneU/status/1243615472307695618 When there are a ton of people looking for work it is not really a good time to be striking

Speaking as a former employee with many friends on the front lines of this event, the lay-offs have very little to do with the team that (previously) wanted to unionize, and much more to do with COVID financial impact and the retail team, of which many many more are now out of a job (vs the team where some percentage of the members previously wanted to unionize).

Whoever the person running that account is, they are not interested in you knowing all of the facts. I assure you.

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