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Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

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Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#121

Post by gok »

brenden2 wrote: post #7

How do Tesla owners feel about the quality of their cars? I'm genuinely curious. This is merely an anecdote, but in my experience it seems like the overall quality of similarly priced automobiles from more traditional luxury carmakers is much higher. The only significant advantage of the Tesla is the fact that it's 100% electric. Also, this is merely a subjective personal preference, but I just don't like the style o…

I got a used one (now ~4 years old) about a year ago. I've mostly liked it.

It's true that interior quality isn't as good as traditional car makers at the same price point. The leather surfaces are kinda plastic looking. The previous owner also decided to add a bunch of fake carbon fiber to the dashboard, which looks goofy but eh. Newer models apparently look better inside.

Agreed that the exterior styling is boring. That said, I don't find any sedan made in the last 10 years is particularly good looking.

Being electric allows some features that are really nice to have. Cabin overheat prevention is a really good safety feature. It's also safe to run all the vehicle systems in an enclosed space, so you can run the heat or AC in a garage, which is great during cold/hot days.

Beyond just being electric, I'd throw in:

- The on-board software is easily the least bad of any car I've touched

- Remote control via phone is strangely nice to have

- The sedans have wagon-like cargo capacity

- I've heard service horror stories, and I don't doubt that it happens, but the two service appointments I've had were fine. For a part recall they actually came to my home and did the service on-site. For a broken sunroof (my fault) total turnaround time was about 48 hours and I could book the service directly from the app, which was cool. It's also nice you don't have to change oil or do other engine maintenance.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#122

Post by phkahler »

tdhz77 wrote: post #63
oliverx0 wrote: post #11

According to Robinhood: “Tesla's stock has jumped 35% over the past month, becoming the most valuable American car company ever. GM and Ford produced a combined 39x as many cars as Tesla did in 2019, but the electric carmaker is now more valuable than GM and Ford combined. Oh, and Tesla lost almost a billion dollars over the past year while GM and Ford made over $10B in profit. Investors care more about future profit…

Car companies have years of office politics that impact their ability to see the future. I think this has clouded their judgment. People are rooting for Tesla. The gas industry has propped up the short sellers and now the ones that have the money are the ones that believe climate change is real and that Tesla is apart of the solution. New technology in batteries, automation, AI, etc is driving Tesla not sales of the…

>> That’s because Tesla is a tech company not a car company

The traditional car companies specialy is not cars. Its manufacturing and supply chain management.

Tesla does seem to be mastering manufacturing, and being more vertical they dont need as much supply chain handling.

They are not particularly advanced in tech from what I've seen. They do have a bunch of young motivated engineers that have a lot to learn and they can skip over a lot of things and take advantage of the supplier network providing the hard stuff.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#123

Post by Diederich »

typon wrote: post #67
brenden2 wrote: post #7

How do Tesla owners feel about the quality of their cars? I'm genuinely curious. This is merely an anecdote, but in my experience it seems like the overall quality of similarly priced automobiles from more traditional luxury carmakers is much higher. The only significant advantage of the Tesla is the fact that it's 100% electric. Also, this is merely a subjective personal preference, but I just don't like the style o…

It was -5C in Toronto last night. This morning, I couldn't get into my Model 3 because the door glass was frozen. I got some hot water from the washroom and poured it over the glass and got it unstuck. Then I couldn't drive because the sideview mirrors were stuck folded. Got some more hot water and got them unstuck. Maybe the car is designed for California weather only, but in the winter i've had these types of issue…

Did you have time to try to use the remote app to turn the internal heat way up for a while to loosen the ice on the glass?

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#124

Post by _jal »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #105
jansan wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones did not need a charging network. They did not have any disadvantages besides the high price, which made them even more desirable. But I just do not see average people who live in condos buy an EV anytime soon.

> They did not have any disadvantages besides the high price iPhones couldn't run Flash (which powered all of the interactive content on the internet at the time), couldn't send MMS (which was the way everyone shared photos at the time) or run apps (which was how feature phones added functionality at the time). "Why on Earth would anyone want one of those!?" was a pretty common reaction, yet they still sold like hotc…

> "Why on Earth would anyone want one of those!?"

That reaction really only came from makers of competing phones. (RIM execs famously refused to believe the battery life was possible, Balmer threw very unconvincing dismissals.)

Everyone else was standing in line to buy one.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#125

Post by agumonkey »

jansan wrote: post #89
jppope wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what you're missing... Most of the major automakers: Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc do not have viable business models in the near future. They are so far behind in sustainable transportation its only a matter of time until they lose their economies of scale and are no longer viable businesses. It's an "Iphone moment"... the other car companies have great "flip phones" right now.

iPhones did not need a charging network. They did not have any disadvantages besides the high price, which made them even more desirable. But I just do not see average people who live in condos buy an EV anytime soon.

It's really unknown at that time. If (IF) a few changes in techniques, materials and manufacturing processes align, with the climate friendly mentality, it's far from impossible that ICE will vanish fast and be replaced by EVs.

Of course these are all IFs:

- battery chemistry: change in electrolyte, if not solid state

- modular wiring (way less expensive cable to make and install)

These two are worked on as of now, if they pan out, that's another drop in price and increase in usability.

Taking in account that the amount of money flowing into EVs has most probably increase by an order of magnitude (German brands, etc, all are investing). This may very well cause an overall drop in prices in all parts. Commoditization..

Time will tell

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#126

Post by SEJeff »

jppope wrote: post #55
oliverx0 wrote: post #11

According to Robinhood: “Tesla's stock has jumped 35% over the past month, becoming the most valuable American car company ever. GM and Ford produced a combined 39x as many cars as Tesla did in 2019, but the electric carmaker is now more valuable than GM and Ford combined. Oh, and Tesla lost almost a billion dollars over the past year while GM and Ford made over $10B in profit. Investors care more about future profit…

Here's what you're missing... Most of the major automakers: Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc do not have viable business models in the near future. They are so far behind in sustainable transportation its only a matter of time until they lose their economies of scale and are no longer viable businesses. It's an "Iphone moment"... the other car companies have great "flip phones" right now.

In addition to the very large market opportunity for their stationary storage batteries and solar panels / solar tiles. You can sell those big grid scale megapacks to virtually every government in the world. You can't necessarily sell Tesla cars to every person in most of the third world (or western first world for that matter!).

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#127

Post by asdfk-12 »

jansan wrote: post #89
jppope wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what you're missing... Most of the major automakers: Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, etc do not have viable business models in the near future. They are so far behind in sustainable transportation its only a matter of time until they lose their economies of scale and are no longer viable businesses. It's an "Iphone moment"... the other car companies have great "flip phones" right now.

iPhones did not need a charging network. They did not have any disadvantages besides the high price, which made them even more desirable. But I just do not see average people who live in condos buy an EV anytime soon.

Condo associations in my city have been permissive/proactive about this issue, wiring a few parking spots near the building with 220v, and assessing the owner with the cost. Our city has also installed charging stations at public buildings to encourage EV adoption.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#128

Post by iamaelephant »

aerovistae wrote: post #101
woofcat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From my seat, that really remains to be seen. The existing companies don't seem to have found a way to compete with Tesla's EVs yet. They may get there eventually, but Tesla has it now. This somewhat reminds me of BlackBerry. They're basically the only game in town right now, and thus maintain a market advantage. However as larger companies shift to EV's as the technology matures how will Tesla be able to maintain i…

No! No, no, no. This will not happen. It's a total pipe dream. These ancient companies, so set in their ways, who have been incrementally making tiny adjustments to their cars for decades, will never "suddenly leap forward" to come out with something more advanced and more appealing than a Tesla. Tesla isn't the blackberry here, the other car companies are! You're basically the guy in 2008 saying "sure Apple has an a…

This comment comes across as wishful thinking and not thoughtful analysis.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#129

Post by mn99 »

brenden2 wrote: post #7

How do Tesla owners feel about the quality of their cars? I'm genuinely curious. This is merely an anecdote, but in my experience it seems like the overall quality of similarly priced automobiles from more traditional luxury carmakers is much higher. The only significant advantage of the Tesla is the fact that it's 100% electric. Also, this is merely a subjective personal preference, but I just don't like the style o…

I sold a BMW 3 series to buy a Tesla Model 3 (performance model). Overall build quality of the Tesla is good but slightly below the BMW. Little things like the sound & feel of doors closing, the way the boot lid feels when opening/closing, etc. A couple of weeks ago it froze overnight and the next morning two of the doors were a bit difficult to open because the windows got stuck (the windows lower a few mm automatically so that the doors can open).

But those little issues aside, I couldn't be happier. Interior quality is actually better than expected and I think on par with the BMW. I personally love the fact that there are hardly any switches and buttons. Just looks very clean and modern.

Handling and ride comfort is absolutely on par with the BMW.

Re: Tesla Surges Above $500, Leaving Analyst Targets in the Dust

#130

Post by mattlondon »

typon wrote: post #84
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had these issues on my Seat Leon in the past, ie not a Tesla. I am based in the UK and its pretty rare for temperatures to drop below 0 and it still happens.

My dad owns a Civic and a Lexus, this has never happened in the past 25 years of living in Canada (and temperatures keep rising over the years). It's happening due to the door design of Tesla where the glass does not have a frame around it. I made the purchase knowing these issues could arise - but let's not try to make it seem like these issues happen to all cars.

In my experience the doors on my 2006 civic used to freeze shut all the time in UK winters (not hugely cold either: 0 to low negatives degrees-C). Also happens on my current 2010 Toyota if it gets cold enough. These have traditional door frames but the ice often builds up between the frames and seals I guess.

Bit of brute force was enough to pull them open. Windows need to be defrosted before you can open them too.

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