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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#181

Post by hos234 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #103
hos234 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Airbus wants to hire 300 software engineers, good luck finding them in reasonable time periods in Germany or France. Local small niche firms can survive. The larger you get the longer it takes to hit hiring goal. You will understand that only after you spend time actually hiring people. Telling the boss well I can't do this locally in 3 months, I need 6 plus a budget to relocate people from other EU locations will…

>If Airbus wants to hire 300 software engineers, good luck finding them in reasonable time periods in Germany or France. Airbus can't find 300 engineers in Germany and France? Come on! More like Airbus can't find 300 engineers in Germany and France willing to work for peanuts. It's always the last part that gets lost in the translation. Has Airbus thought about training said engineers instead of expecting them to mag…

:) You will find Airbus managers who agree with you BUT they compete for reaources with Airbus managers who don't.

This is an old debate and it's more or less a settled one in large orgs with large requirements whether in US or EU - the managers who don't care how they meet their goals win. You don't have to believe me, you just need to spend time talking to people who have run large teams in the EU and ask them how they survive.

The world is not getting any less competitive and mgmt in large orgs spend most of their day reacting rather than proactively doing anything. Smaller orgs it's easier but again they too are under pressure in different ways.

During this phase where many things are in flux and unstable it's a safer bet to move to where the jobs are then expecting the govt or corp s to do anything radical. They are too trapped even if they have competent ppl...anyway that's just my experience and opinion and I hope I am wrong.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#182

Post by novaRom »

bumblebee4 wrote: post #179
Isinlor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

As an engineer, isn't life in Asia more luxurious because you can easily afford a maid and other amenities? Seriously, what's the benefit of moving into Western Europe?

Freedom of speech and action. Less corruption. Clean air and environment. More social protections.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#183

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

mcv wrote: post #180
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. If that was the case, birthrates wouldn't be so low in Europe. Free school and healthcare doesn't support your family when rents are higher than ever and fewer people than ever can afford to buy a property to raise a family in.

Low birthrate isn't caused by high rent, but by a highly educated population and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.

Says who? Meaningless statistics?

Talking to my circles of highly skilled couples most cite money as the primary reason they're putting off having children.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#184

Post by mcv »

peaceanwar wrote: post #129
inertiatic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).

> "Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece."

Something has most definitely gone horribly wrong in Greece a couple of years ago. I remember hearing that the costs of living in Greece at the time were not a bit lower than then expensive parts of western Europe, whereas wages for young people were quite a lot lower, making it practically impossible for young people to earn a living.

We haven't heard much about Greece in recent years, so maybe things have improved, but this sounds like maybe they haven't.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#185

Post by nine_zeros »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

I hear you! But let's engage in a conversation.

Would you rather believe in your own mental model of supply/demand or would you rather look at what happened in the real world?

There are really only 3 places in the world with booming tech. USA, China and India. EU is nowhere. One might ask why does China and India (with so-called flood of supply of engineers) developed technology so much faster than already developed EU?

The answer lies in answering that question. Why do you think EU is left behind?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#186

Post by mcv »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #183
mcv wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low birthrate isn't caused by high rent, but by a highly educated population and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.

Says who? Meaningless statistics? Talking to my circles of highly skilled couples most cite money as the primary reason they're putting off having children.

Most people I know who don't have children simply aren't interested in having children. And they can afford not to have children, so they don't.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#187

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

ben_w wrote: post #175
foepys wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this being downvoted so much. A family requires a lot more money than being single. Are so many people here single without children that don't know or care about this? Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line.

> Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line. What do you base this on? Based on [0], the poverty threshold in Germany is €13.152/year, and Germany is one of the richer EU nations. Even if that’s a working single parent and one child, €30k isn’t scratching the poverty line. [0] https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-minimum-wage-is-barely-above-th...

We need to stop taking government statistics as de facto goalposts.

Just because the German government says you can live on €13.152/year doesn't make it a fact.

Government numbers also says inflation is 2.6% last year but if I look closely, my bills and mandatory expenses have gone up way more than that.

That article states that Romanians are best off in the EU when it comes to living on minimum wage, while I can tell you that it's definitely not like that in the real world.

Lots of the time statistics are made with a formula tailored by the government to fit a certain political agenda.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#188

Post by ben_w »

csunbird wrote: post #125
aclsid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is the poster child for controlled rent working well for everybody, to the point where it is more of hassle to buy.

What are you talking about ? Are you even living in Germany? The rent prices here in Berlin are bonkers, landlords are asking 800 Euros warm for 35 sqm "flats" and they are able to get away with it because every flat in the area has at least 30+ applicants. Even if it is rent controlled and the contracts are illegal, you can not report it otherwise you get kicked and no other landlord will rent you their property. Th…

In my opinion, as ein verrückte britische Ausländer living in Berlin, the rent control is why so many people show up to flat viewings.

However, I think there is a lot of price variation in Berlin, and many cheap parts: I’m paying €485 for a room in a WG in Buchholz, while collecting €820 (after fees, at current exchange rates) from a flat in a quiet village 30 minutes away from Cambridge in the UK.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#189

Post by mkbkn »

throwno wrote: post #164
Isinlor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

Rich to hear Indians feeling entitled to EU immigration when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration. Letting poor muslims compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It undermines your position of power.

> when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration

That's because of the current Fascists govt who is hell bent on copying 1984, China & Nazis.

Most Indians do not support this law.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#190

Post by nine_zeros »

onion2k wrote: post #82
LatteLazy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you want the 7 best software engineers on earth, statistically 1.4 of them are in china, 1.2 in india etc, only 0.5 of them are in Europe. So you import the others. Only you want the 7 million best software engineers (plus other engineers, doctors, lawyers, writers, artists, scientists, teachers etc)

That assumes being the best software engineer is a trait you're born with rather than something you learn. That's unlikely. It's much more likely that the best software engineers are concentrated in places where everyone receives a very high level of education. As education varies massively across the world, the best software engineers probably aren't distributed based on population sizes.

I think you massively underestimate the training required to become "good" doctors, lawyers, engineers, finance people, political scientists, professors etc.

Folks specializing in these areas aren't really interchangeable. Thus, having a small number of "good" in each of these still starves demand.

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