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Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

citylab.com

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Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#251

Post by thatfrenchguy »

FussyZeus wrote: post #37
benrbray wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. I don't quite understand your point about the "technological and class di…

> America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. Then let's discuss some realistic solutions: Outside of densely populat…

> When I want to run errands, or pop out for lunch, or whatever, I can walk outside and use my vehicle. It's there all the time, 24 hours a day. No app required. No booking required. Certainly no waiting on someone to drive over and get me. There is simply no mass transit option that can equate this, end of.

Ever lived in a real city ? Walking 3 minutes to take the metro and take 5 minutes to get to your destination for something that'll take 15 minutes by car is common in cities like Paris ;-). And it prevents you from becoming fat from not doing anything.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#252

Post by fragmede »

asjw wrote: post #246
Demoneeri wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you are using "heavily subsidized public transport" while using the entierly subsidized road system...

Disclaimer: I've been car free for the past three years. I agree that roads are public infrastructure, but car owners are heavily taxed in Europe, especially some parts of Europe. In Italy, excluding fuel taxes (which cover 70% of the cost of the fuel BTW) every car owner pays a mandatory "car owning tax" for each car they own, that totals around 5-6 billions euros/year. And it's only the main one, there are several…

In the US, it's called a car registration fee, but it's the same thing - a tax on owning a car.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#253

Post by fragmede »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #147

San Francisco had one street block near Union Square closed off for a looong time because of construction, and they put some fake turf on it. Occasionally there would be pop-up events, like a little Christmas fair. I would deliberately walk slightly out of my way to go up that block because it meant no cars and wayyy more room to walk. I loved it and was so disappointed to see it turned into a normal street again. Si…

> I'm curious why this hasn't happened yet

There's significant support for drastically changing Market street to be car-free(er). The Better Market Street SF project was unanimous approved this past October! Starting January they will be closing Market street to private vehicles - no Uber/Lyft, only buses, taxis, and commercial vehicles (for eg, the farmer's market). This $600 million dollar project will add proper bike lanes, separate from the sidewalk, widen the sidewalk, and turn the boarded up storefronts into a flourishing urban environment.

http://www.bettermarketstreetsf.org/

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#254

Post by mntmoss »

big_chungus wrote: post #126
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's expensive to live in a city that's 40% asphalt to move cars around and park cars in. You basically need to pay 40% more for the same living space, since you don't really pay for the moving space. Great way for car companies to force externalities onto everyone else. Don't like cars? "Oh well, you're paying for the road and parking anyway. You can't beat the problem, so you may as well join it."

If induced demand is a problem for cars, might it not be a problem for cities? A higher potential density will lead to a higher density.

In Portland, OR, there is substantial transit infrastructure, but the results are a bit mixed. Everyone agrees that it is easy to get around most of the city, but its suburban areas tend to experience the same low-density/high-prices phenomenon that is seen in other coastal cities.

Why? Last I read on the topic, it's because the market is factoring in the potential value of each parcel when built out according to what infrastructure dictates, but without actually building it. So small garages built 50 years ago are getting priced like 8-story apartments.

Actually building to meet the demand is the thing that lowers the rent, and that comes down to raising the inflow of building permits each year. That's the part that has to be solved.

One of the things that Japan does besides having a lot of trains is a standardized national zoning code that makes planning and permitting much more straightforward. Building in Japan is much more of a commodity, and the prices reflect that. And an example of relaxed building rules in the USA is Houston, which has long had a cool yet expanding housing market, but a car-centric one.

The effect of the combination of the trains and low regulation in Japan is that you get dense/cheap cities - and with fast trains, all of Japan acts as a "suburb of Tokyo". Trains and regulation gives you PDX. Cars and low regulation and you get Houston. Cars and regulation and you get regional SF.

By comparing these different outcomes something like a coherent theory occurs: population in the industrial era always tends to urbanize. If we restrict the flow in some way, we get high priced urban areas; the specifics of infrastructure choices are just one factor, and not necessarily the biggest. But population growth itself is a national issue and comes from other demographic factors(immigration, childbearing rates, death rates). And although Tokyo still gets bigger, which is indicative that urbanization isn't "done", Japan as a whole is on the decline.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#256

Post by monkeywork »

greenonions wrote: post #161
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Criticizing cars is the only way to wake people up to the damage they have caused in our society. It's a way to make you look like an out-of-touch loony, who therefore gets ignored. If you want to reduce car use in the US, dial down the rhetoric, and work on increasing the convenience of not using a car. You're going to win more hearts and minds by making available something better than you are by constantly carpin…

Hard to mince words regarding the statistics on cars. You read and responded to the comment, so they clearly drive engagement. Walking, biking, taking the bus, carpooling are incredibly convenient for anyone willing to try, and I certainly support efforts to improve the facilities for these at all opportunities. There are uncomfortable truths that need to be addressed about cars, however, and you don't get anywhere b…

Except this isnt an easily preventable disease, nor is it an easily curable one.

Tempering the rhetoric in place of actually presenting facts and ideas in a non combative way that offers something of actual tangible value to people will vastly do more to accomplish the goals then trying to shame or beat down ppl.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#257

Post by spats1990 »

peterwwillis wrote: post #186
spats1990 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just thought I'd toss it in there as a sort of topping or garnish for the article. Private cars in urban areas are incredibly inefficient from just about any direction you choose to view it from.

Well they're efficient for use cases that any other transportation option doesn't work for. Just like a bus is very efficient at moving 80 people in one direction, a car is efficient at moving one person in 80 directions. If we didn't have private cars, businesses couldn't efficiently do things like deliveries, and individual people couldn't make trips that are outside the scope of public transit. So to replace them…

Maybe my British English is hindering communication of my point here, because by "private car" I meant "car for private personal i.e. non-commercial use"

as I've noted elsewhere, in many areas there is no way around use of private cars due to the lack of population density.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#258

Post by davchana »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #19
NPMaxwell wrote: post #2

Part of the change is due to the appearance of alternative powered vehicles. In Tokyo, it seems like every mother is riding an electric cargo bike with covered seating for two kids and room for groceries -- the minivan of bicycles. In Seattle, the morning commute is full of electric skateboards, scooters, onewheels, and wheelchairs. It looks doable.

How do those work in winter? We had electric scooters, but they were all scooped up by their parent companies in October ahead of the coming months of hell.

Yes, I myself bought an elec scooter after experiencing the one in Los Angeles, & had to park it back in room because of all rain & winter.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#259

Post by GuiA »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #147

San Francisco had one street block near Union Square closed off for a looong time because of construction, and they put some fake turf on it. Occasionally there would be pop-up events, like a little Christmas fair. I would deliberately walk slightly out of my way to go up that block because it meant no cars and wayyy more room to walk. I loved it and was so disappointed to see it turned into a normal street again. Si…

Valencia St is closed to cars one Sunday a month (I forget which one). It’s always a pleasure to walk through.

Then there are also the streets that get blocked off for markets (eg 22nd between Mission and Valencia every Thursday afternoon/evening), also very pleasant.

The more of these the better for our cities.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#260

Post by noobermin »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #222
noobermin wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is value on both ends. If you are too kind and effeminate on the causes you care about, no one will listen to you either and will think it doesn't matter. You need a mix of both voices in any movement.

Uh, effeminate?

I meant effeminate as weak. Apparently it has a sexist connotation, I actually did not know that it meant that until you pointed it out.
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