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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

331–340 of 634 posts

Re: The Real Class War

#331
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General rule: work spent on getting better at a zero-sum game is valuable to the player doing it, but if all players do it, the result is waste. Example 1: companies spending on advertising to increase their share of a fixed market. Example 2: managers hiring more people for their team to look more important within the larger company. Example 3: if social status is determined by looking tougher than others, everyone…

Advertising encourages people to spend, even in some times to do it by going into debt. This in turn leads to more economic activity, more widgets ordered, which in theory should mean we can reap benefits of economies of scale, we can better amortize costs, etc. Which leads to R&D and innovation, which helps technological change, which leads to a more efficient economy, which leads to more surplus, which means more w…

> which helps technological change, which leads to a more efficient economy

You made a leap of logic here. The technological innovations in finance directly contributed to a more volatile economy that crashed and inflicted massive losses on huge swaths of the global population, many of whom never recovered.

Re: The Real Class War

#332
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but nobody's happy about cheap lawn furniture, for example, when they can't afford homes, healthcare, or education.

Healthcare expenditures only makes up 6.3% of the average income of an American household. Education only makes up 1.8%. Vehicles and apparel alone, without even breaking out any other tradable sector, make up the same percent of household expenditures as healthcare and education. Housing makes up 25%. But the cost of housing, as measured by the median inflation-adjusted cost per square foot of a new house has actual…

> But the cost of housing, as measured by the median inflation-adjusted cost per square foot of a new house has actually fallen by 8% since 1992.

That's a relatively meaningless statistic given that new houses don't account for a significant subset of the housing supply.

A better measure of true housing costs is BLS's annual Consumer Expenditure Survey [1], which shows that just from 2013-2018, average annual housing expenditure has risen from $17148 to $20091, an increase of 17%.

1. https://www.bls.gov/cex/2018/standard/multiyr.pdf

Re: The Real Class War

#333
post #321

George Orwell covered this basic point in `1984` (published in 1949): > The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of any…

So the idea behind this is what? That you shouldn't trust the revolutionaries because they dont have your interests in mind? That its hopeless? This model of the world is just run of the mill statusquoism trying to make people too despondent to tear down hierarchy, not some deep truth.

To be honest I dont know if Orwell agreed with the position of the high or not, but the fact people repeat this propaganda of the "high" from 1984 is absurd.

Re: The Real Class War

#334
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Middle-class Americans have captured gains through cheaper, higher-quality products than would have otherwise existed without trade and development. Cheaper products, sure, but higher quality? Retailers like Walmart and Amazon are essentially operating cartels, they dictate the prices they are willing to pay for manufactured goods. For manufacturers to meet these demands, cuts will have to come from somewhere--cheap…

Autos, which were the first major industry to globalize, have shown undeniably significant and sustained improvements in quality, reliability and safety over time. I don't really hard data for any other major sector, and would be interested in anyone that does. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/28/average...

This is true, but there are 2 things to consider here. First, purchasing a new or gently used car is likely to be a person's second biggest monthly expense after housing. It is therefore in the best interest of the manufacturer to create a product that is reliable (at least reliable enough to last as long as the 6-7 year loan which are common today). Secondly, you have a couple of 'unicorn' manufacturers (to use a SV parlance) in Toyota and Honda that have historically been outliers in reliability within their market, and have subsequently dominated the market.

This is a huge difference from the sweat-shop in Bangladesh making t-shirts for Wal-Mart or H&M, or the electronics manufacturer in Shenzhen making toasters.

It's all about supply and demand, the demand for a reliable automobile creates a market for that product. Meanwhile, as lower and middle-class people have less purchasing power due to high housing prices, debt, medical expenses etc, the demand for cheap toasters is greater than the demand for a more expensive (but robust) alternative.

Re: The Real Class War

#335

> But it is precisely for these reasons that the working class is unlikely to be decisive in shaping politics for the foreseeable future. However one defines the working class, it has scarcely any political agency in the current system and no apparent means for acquiring any. At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation o…

While I don't really agree with the author on this point, I think the basis of the claim is implied to be the election of Trump. Trump prevailing in the primary (and the general even) could be seen as a referendum of the working class on establishment politics. And yet, what has changed? Trump hasn't brought back American industry as promised, nor has he made a trillion dollars infrastructure package as promised. He…

The working class went for Clinton though? By a large margin?

Re: The Real Class War

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General rule: work spent on getting better at a zero-sum game is valuable to the player doing it, but if all players do it, the result is waste. Example 1: companies spending on advertising to increase their share of a fixed market. Example 2: managers hiring more people for their team to look more important within the larger company. Example 3: if social status is determined by looking tougher than others, everyone…

I like how this was stated, even if people can nitpick the examples. Did this concept come from "Finite and Infinite Games" or your own reflections?

From reading textbooks and solving problems in game theory and econ.

Re: The Real Class War

#337
post #12
post #5

I disagree that the working class is not going to radicalize itself. They too are out here on the internet, talking to each other and culturally evolving at an unprecedented rate, like everyone else. For the first time they have the power to publish and think in public uncoupled from professional barrier. Better believe it’s being used, and that they will assert their awareness.

The election of Donald Trump could be seen as the result of the radicalisation of the working class.

Trump voters are on average wealthier than Clinton voters: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/0...

Re: The Real Class War

#338
post #321

George Orwell covered this basic point in `1984` (published in 1949): > The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of any…

So the idea behind this is what? That you shouldn't trust the revolutionaries because they dont have your interests in mind? That its hopeless? This model of the world is just run of the mill statusquoism trying to make people too despondent to tear down hierarchy, not some deep truth. To be honest I dont know if Orwell agreed with the position of the high or not, but the fact people repeat this propaganda of the "hi…

Alternatively it can be seen as a lesson for the low to not allow the middle to use them as a weapon. If they want to avoid this same result they'd need to take over their own revolution, not be led by the middle.

Re: The Real Class War

#339
post #321

George Orwell covered this basic point in `1984` (published in 1949): > The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of any…

So the idea behind this is what? That you shouldn't trust the revolutionaries because they dont have your interests in mind? That its hopeless? This model of the world is just run of the mill statusquoism trying to make people too despondent to tear down hierarchy, not some deep truth. To be honest I dont know if Orwell agreed with the position of the high or not, but the fact people repeat this propaganda of the "hi…

I've read it as we repeat a cycle where people are always far up on top and the only way to break that cycle is to be content with more or less everyone being in or near the middle.

Or put another way: So long as there is a high that people can day dream about becoming then there will never be equality for the majority of people. Otherwise people will get into the high places, slam the door shut as soon as they can, and the fighting and day dreaming will continue.

Re: The Real Class War

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the idea behind this is what? That you shouldn't trust the revolutionaries because they dont have your interests in mind? That its hopeless? This model of the world is just run of the mill statusquoism trying to make people too despondent to tear down hierarchy, not some deep truth. To be honest I dont know if Orwell agreed with the position of the high or not, but the fact people repeat this propaganda of the "hi…

Alternatively it can be seen as a lesson for the low to not allow the middle to use them as a weapon. If they want to avoid this same result they'd need to take over their own revolution, not be led by the middle.

"the low" are not a static entity. People will choose to behave differently once their status changes.
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