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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The Real Class War

#321

Post by tc »

George Orwell covered this basic point in `1984` (published in 1949):

> The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again.

Re: The Real Class War

#322

Post by jpindar »

frockington1 wrote: post #220
squiggleblaz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you invest when you have to decide whether to fix the car or eat? The rules aren't fair, they're made by the rich. Learning how to follow them won't make you richer because they're designed to increase the wealth at the top. Almost no-one advocates seizing wealth hrough tax. Merely work (income). Since the rich have wealth and the poor work (earn income)

Learning how to follow rules is exatly how to become rich. Entry level retail store now pays 15/hr. 60 hours at week equates to 48k/year. Hardly unfair

Nowadays people are lucky if that entry level retail job will give them 40 hours a week, never mind 60.

Re: The Real Class War

#323

Post by antiutopian »

shevek_ wrote: post #262

From 2018-2019, we saw teachers protests and strikes lead to massive concessions being gained in 7/9 states they occurred in, most of which were red states. The working class has a considerable amount of power when wielded correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_education_work... Eric Blanc's Red State Revolt is another great source on this https://www.versobooks.com/books/2955-red-state-revolt

Exactly right. The working class has power because we are the ones who make society run. In the case of teachers, a strike creates a complete crisis in the city. For private sector workers, they can completely halt profit-making by their employer. Unfortunately we are largely unorganized and taking this kind of action requires a lot of organization. We also do not have a political party made up of workers and representing workers genuine interests. So I see how journalists with no real understanding of the labor movement can get confused.

Re: The Real Class War

#324

Post by dcolkitt »

_iyig wrote: post #157
dcolkitt wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the people who have captured the gains from that growth have been the capital class in the developed nations (i.e not blue collar workers or the professional class) Wrong. Middle-class Americans have captured gains through cheaper, higher-quality products than would have otherwise existed without trade and development. Are you using a phone made in China, or wearing clothes made in Bangladesh, or eat fresh fruit in…

Maybe so, but nobody's happy about cheap lawn furniture, for example, when they can't afford homes, healthcare, or education.

Healthcare expenditures only makes up 6.3% of the average income of an American household. Education only makes up 1.8%.

Vehicles and apparel alone, without even breaking out any other tradable sector, make up the same percent of household expenditures as healthcare and education.

Housing makes up 25%. But the cost of housing, as measured by the median inflation-adjusted cost per square foot of a new house has actually fallen by 8% since 1992.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm [2] https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/

Re: The Real Class War

#325

Post by sodafountan »

Aunche wrote: post #246
sodafountan wrote: post #172

Virtually every problem listed in this article is solved if bitcoin continues its historic rise - and yet you mention bitcoin on hacker news and you're down-voted to oblivion, it really is unbelievable. The "Elites" are getting richer because capital is being used to accumulate more capital through dividends on stocks and revenue producing assets. The only reason money is being funneled into these assets is because t…

> Bitcoin doesn't have a dividend, if you're part of the 0.1 percent you can buy a ton of it, but in order to realize any gains you have to sell it and if you can't replenish it you'll have to go back to work to earn more. You're describing all forms of currency. You can still buy stocks with Bitcoin and receive dividends in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is worse in this regard because you don't even need to invest it for it to g…

Oh god, I'm hardly describing all forms of currency, quite the opposite actually. All currency is fiat and artificially inflated which is actually the root of the problem entirely.

And yes by buying and hoarding bitcoin you can make yourself very rich - that's the point.

Re: The Real Class War

#326

Post by hnuser77 »

ryanong wrote: post #270
ameister14 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Activists, yes - but not really through marching. Money, judicial challenges and coordinated political action to promote marriage equality as a goal were the key. The debate was reframed, messaging was crafted carefully and the groups organizing and paying for it all were extremely organized and cohesive. The Proteus fund and specifically the CMC did a heck of a lot here.

Marching is the first necessary step to get people organized. It is the lowest bar for starting to organize and to participate. It is where people can drum up support, awareness and donations.

Perhaps it's necessary but not sufficient: if you have zero lawyers, press, or government officials on your side, marching is a great way to get thrown in jail for "rioting" and have your reputation destroyed.

Re: The Real Class War

#327

Post by dcolkitt »

ezzzzz wrote: post #272
dcolkitt wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the people who have captured the gains from that growth have been the capital class in the developed nations (i.e not blue collar workers or the professional class) Wrong. Middle-class Americans have captured gains through cheaper, higher-quality products than would have otherwise existed without trade and development. Are you using a phone made in China, or wearing clothes made in Bangladesh, or eat fresh fruit in…

>Middle-class Americans have captured gains through cheaper, higher-quality products than would have otherwise existed without trade and development. Cheaper products, sure, but higher quality? Retailers like Walmart and Amazon are essentially operating cartels, they dictate the prices they are willing to pay for manufactured goods. For manufacturers to meet these demands, cuts will have to come from somewhere--cheap…

Autos, which were the first major industry to globalize, have shown undeniably significant and sustained improvements in quality, reliability and safety over time.

I don't really hard data for any other major sector, and would be interested in anyone that does.

[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/06/28/average...

Re: The Real Class War

#328

Post by Bartweiss »

shevek_ wrote: post #262

From 2018-2019, we saw teachers protests and strikes lead to massive concessions being gained in 7/9 states they occurred in, most of which were red states. The working class has a considerable amount of power when wielded correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_education_work... Eric Blanc's Red State Revolt is another great source on this https://www.versobooks.com/books/2955-red-state-revolt

This is a good point, but it's notable that the only major strike victory since 2008 was by government employees.

There have only been a few other notable strikes in that time, outside of special cases like pro sports. And aside from one narrow strike (UAW vs Kohler), most of them have ended with token concessions (Verizon, which yielded to strikers much further in 2000) or complete collapse (USW Oil Workers, in their first strike since the 80s). It's not a coincidence that the last strike by GM workers was in 2007, right before the company became obviously precarious.

Government employees in general have been insulated from the decline in private-sector union strength. And beyond that, there's real reason that teachers are not a standard example of the "working class", even compared to other government work like the USPS. They are working class by salary, and that's important to remember. But it's also true that schools aren't subject to market downturns and offshoring the way manufacturing has been, and that teachers - who have multiple degrees and responsibility for people's children - are unusually hard to hire and replace.

I think you're right that the working class has more power than it's currently bringing to bear, but it has lost quite a lot of actual and even potential influence over the last few decades.

Re: The Real Class War

#329

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

cousin_it wrote: post #61
kortilla wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> political system to organise itself to reward work done How do you decide which work is valuable and which work isn’t?

General rule: work spent on getting better at a zero-sum game is valuable to the player doing it, but if all players do it, the result is waste. Example 1: companies spending on advertising to increase their share of a fixed market. Example 2: managers hiring more people for their team to look more important within the larger company. Example 3: if social status is determined by looking tougher than others, everyone…

I like how this was stated, even if people can nitpick the examples.

Did this concept come from "Finite and Infinite Games" or your own reflections?

Re: The Real Class War

#330

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

Miner49er wrote: post #281
username90 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay marriage was also prevented in America for hundreds of years 100% due to activists. There is no money for or against gay marriage, it was always only activists on both sides so it isn't a good example of a class war.

I'm not so sure, gay rights intersects with the class war in at least a couple of ways: - Dividing the working class on the issue of gay rights is an effective way for the elites to get the working class to ignore the class war. - Control of reproduction offers some control over labor.

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