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The Real Class War

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The Real Class War

#261

Post by [deleted] »

Slothrop479 wrote: post #235
0x445442 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the imbalance between the mobility of capital and the mobility of labor. If it were as easy for Joe Iowa to move some place with a lower cost of living to compete for labor as it is for Joe CEO to setup manufacturing there then I'd be all for Globalization.

The mechanisms by which globalization works to favor the rich is laid out well by economist Dean Baker in his book Rigged. The introduction looks at how trade imbalances with the global south benefit the rich in the west. The third chapter examines the macroeconomics of upwards redistribution itself. The entire book is available free on his website: https://deanbaker.net/images/stories/documents/Rigged.pdf In terms o…

[deleted]

Re: The Real Class War

#262

Post by shevek_ »

From 2018-2019, we saw teachers protests and strikes lead to massive concessions being gained in 7/9 states they occurred in, most of which were red states. The working class has a considerable amount of power when wielded correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_education_work...

Eric Blanc's Red State Revolt is another great source on this

https://www.versobooks.com/books/2955-red-state-revolt

Re: The Real Class War

#263

Post by notabee »

edoceo wrote: post #190
WhompingWindows wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention they were all poisoned by lead, using it for sweeteners, pipes, and for their chalices and cups.

Flint, MI would like a word

A slow moving disaster of neglected infrastructure across the country would also like a word: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lead-map/reuters-find...

Re: The Real Class War

#264

Post by api »

shevek_ wrote: post #262

From 2018-2019, we saw teachers protests and strikes lead to massive concessions being gained in 7/9 states they occurred in, most of which were red states. The working class has a considerable amount of power when wielded correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_education_work... Eric Blanc's Red State Revolt is another great source on this https://www.versobooks.com/books/2955-red-state-revolt

As it stands any broad based working class revolt in the US can be effectively nullified by bringing up a culture war issue like abortion, homosexuality, etc. and using it to split the electorate. This has been true for a long time. These issues evoke emotional responses that easily override any rational concern for one's economic well being.

Whether intentional or not, the culture war continues to be the most effective tool in history for sidelining and fragmenting any struggle for economic equality. This is because culture war issues do not slice the electorate along the same lines as economic issues.

Re: The Real Class War

#265

Post by snowwrestler »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class?

How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has historically had?

Re: The Real Class War

#266

Post by Nasrudith »

nl wrote: post #39
neonate wrote: post #29

I read it, though not closely, and am still unclear what is the "real class war". The educated-but-alienated professional elite against the oligarchs? I'm just guessing. Also, he kind of loses it in the final paragraphs, which weakened my impression of the rest.

>I read it, though not closely, and am still unclear what is the "real class war" The real class war is between the 0.1 percent and (at most) the 10 percent—or, more precisely, between elites primarily dependent on capital gains and those primarily dependent on profes­sional labor. It's pretty clearly defined. It's the group that makes their money primarily from investment returns vs those who make their money primar…

I would say that capital gains and professional are more variables than hard coded aspects as the lines may be drawn differently in a context.

With an actual warrior elite vs merchantdom you can subsitute "spoils" vs "profits". Both blocs depend upon both skill and capital in that case and find themselves in tension.

Feudal societies distrust merchants and often consider them beneath even peasantry - but the merchants in turn may force respect and have undeniable advantages for funding the warrior elites.

Similarly take the Antebellum US with the Southern Slaveholder "Aristocrats" vs the Industrialists. Both are capital dependent and rely upon lower classes although the later are far more skill demanding than the previous who make a virtue of idleness to those who can afford it.

Even Soviets and other "nominal Communists" totalitarians who furiously insist that they aren't fascists due to the least relevant distinctions have similar factional elite branches despite their capital being social.

Re: The Real Class War

#267

Post by ameister14 »

viburnum wrote: post #258
tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

Gay people can get married in America, which was completely unthinkable a generation ago. 100% due to activists, many who risked their lives to make it happen.

Activists, yes - but not really through marching. Money, judicial challenges and coordinated political action to promote marriage equality as a goal were the key. The debate was reframed, messaging was crafted carefully and the groups organizing and paying for it all were extremely organized and cohesive. The Proteus fund and specifically the CMC did a heck of a lot here.

Re: The Real Class War

#268

Post by look_lookatme »

tristor wrote: post #256
Miner49er wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author of this piece is a left-wing statist How familiar are you with the author's work? I'm not familiar with it, but Wikipedia says they are a conservative and former Trump supporter. Most people seem to consider American Affairs a conservative journal, and the author is its editor.

Maybe I overstated my case, then. I am not familiar with the author beyond this piece. This piece, though, shows a very deep disdain for anyone who could be considered conservative and blatantly makes the case for statism. So, perhaps they are not left-wing, merely a statist. I tend to think there are more than one way to skin a cat, and statism is not automatically the correct answer. Their direct statements disagre…

Author is saying that the state is where opportunity is best found at the moment due to all the reasons laid out in the article, which is quite good. It’s not a value judgement, just an observation.

Re: The Real Class War

#269

Post by blurbleblurble »

snowwrestler wrote: post #265
tvanantwerp wrote: post #159

I've spent my career working in public policy circles, and this rings true to me. > At most, working-class voters can cast their ballots for an “un­acceptable” candidate, but they can exercise no influence on policy formation or agency personnel, much less on governance areas that have been transferred to technocratic bodies. > Unlike the work­ing class, the professional managerial class is still capable of, and re­q…

Have you never heard of the labor movement? The grassroots activism by working class people that forced the federal government to develop an entire arm of federal law, with its own Cabinet-level agency, to protect them from the professional managerial class? How have you spent your career working in public policy circles and come away with so little understanding of what grassroots activism is, and the impact it has…

For the same reason that Hillary Clinton got nominated in 2016. Because too many politicians are completely out of touch with the movements, conditions and perspectives of working people.

Where I live, grassroots organizers are doing all the hard work. I'm not talking about protesters. I'm talking about people who are building and connecting organically, who are facilitating workshops and popular education sessions, who are raising awareness about what's going on in local government to enable democracy to happen. Democracy doesn't function without grassroots participation. This country would be a hell hole without the hard work of local organizers everywhere.

Re: The Real Class War

#270

Post by ryanong »

ameister14 wrote: post #267
viburnum wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay people can get married in America, which was completely unthinkable a generation ago. 100% due to activists, many who risked their lives to make it happen.

Activists, yes - but not really through marching. Money, judicial challenges and coordinated political action to promote marriage equality as a goal were the key. The debate was reframed, messaging was crafted carefully and the groups organizing and paying for it all were extremely organized and cohesive. The Proteus fund and specifically the CMC did a heck of a lot here.

Marching is the first necessary step to get people organized. It is the lowest bar for starting to organize and to participate. It is where people can drum up support, awareness and donations.
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