Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 289 posts

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#191

Post by some_random »

Isinlor wrote: post #154
gonational wrote: post #149

> wants to ensure that universities, governments and companies outside the United States can help develop its open-source technology Read as: > wants to ensure that China... Let me see if I understand this correctly. US tax dollars funded (in part, via UC Berkeley) this technology, and now this organization is moving outside of the US specifically so that it can work with China in ways that the US would not appreciat…

Both sentiments are pointed in the same direction - more freedom. Also, Blizzard, South Park, NBA are part of popular culture in the west. Cooperation with China is endangering that culture, so you see backlash. Standards related to RISC-V are not part of popular culture and there is no danger of Chinese censorship. There is however danger of USA protectionism. And yes - I can see Americans using microchip intellectu…

> USA protectionism

Is it just maybe possible that the US public is waking up to the ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansings, and widespread human rights violations in China, which may lead to the state being sanctioned like so many other despicable regimes?

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#192

Post by some_random »

nine_zeros wrote: post #47

Great work. Let over politicized countries fight each other while the rest of the world moves ahead. >“The Chinese Communist Party is trying to circumvent our export control system to support national security threats like Huawei - we cannot let it succeed,” Representative Mike Gallagher, a Republican from Wisconsin, told Reuters. I mean, one cannot make this more obvious. The rest of the world really doesn't want to…

Ah yeah, US paranoia. It's so European to claim moral supremacy while doing business with a country casually committing genocide.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#193

Post by rayiner »

baybal2 wrote: post #146
rayiner wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that bullying? The US doesn’t submit to the jurisdiction of the ICC, which is voluntary. (India isn’t a member either.) Clinton never submitted it to the Senate for ratification. Prosecution of an American by the ICC would therefore be an act of aggression and military response would be warranted. The US, in general, is defensive of its sovereignty. We have our own institutions and we are very protective of th…

> The US doesn’t submit to the jurisdiction of the ICC, which is voluntary. ICC members follow universal jurisdiction when it comes to war crime.

Incorrect: https://www.icc-cpi.int/about/how-the-court-works

“The Court may exercise jurisdiction in a situation where genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes were committed on or after 1 July 2002 and:

the crimes were committed by a State Party national, or in the territory of a State Party, or in a State that has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court; or the crimes were referred to the ICC Prosecutor by the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) pursuant to a resolution adopted under chapter VII of the UN charter.”

The only way the ICC can exercise jurisdiction over a non-member is through referral from the UN Security Council.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#194

Post by buboard »

gonational wrote: post #149

> wants to ensure that universities, governments and companies outside the United States can help develop its open-source technology Read as: > wants to ensure that China... Let me see if I understand this correctly. US tax dollars funded (in part, via UC Berkeley) this technology, and now this organization is moving outside of the US specifically so that it can work with China in ways that the US would not appreciat…

> Gimme a fuckin break.

Sorry if this is a first for you. It's been a very long time however that the US has been successful (and this is a compliment) at commercializing tech that was invented elsewhere. US is a huge beneficiary of the bad business climate elsewhere and international brain drain. This is just a taste of how it works when e.g. european companies emigrate to the US (again, because the US is a better place for them). Consider that the US won the business world because of its openness, not in spite of it.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#195

Post by onepointsixC »

pjc50 wrote: post #182
onepointsixC wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardoning was the wrong move, but are you honestly putting that upon the same level as over a million placed in concentration camps? The US is not perfect, but what, because of that they can't have legitimate points on human rights on what the CCP is doing?

Not that the point isn't legitimate, but it carries less weight because China can just say "we're following the US example". https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-chinese-papers-on-mus... : "Xi pushed the party to use the "organs of dictatorship" to move millions of the minority group, Uighur Muslims, into the camps in western China and cited the United States' war on terror following 9/11 for an example of how to l…

> it carries less weight because China can just say "we're following the US example".

I agree that post 9/11 US foreign policy making has been disastrous and utterly corrosive to America's ability to hold the moral high ground. But surely we can differentiate here. Putting millions of Uhyger men into camps and forcing their wives to share beds with Han men is on a whole another level[1].

[1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-china-u...

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#196

Post by DrScientist »

edraferi wrote: post #155
gonational wrote: post #149

> wants to ensure that universities, governments and companies outside the United States can help develop its open-source technology Read as: > wants to ensure that China... Let me see if I understand this correctly. US tax dollars funded (in part, via UC Berkeley) this technology, and now this organization is moving outside of the US specifically so that it can work with China in ways that the US would not appreciat…

I think your analysis is correct. Before jumping to the “US is a bully” narrative, one should consider: - they whole problem here is that Hauwei and other state-sponsored Chinese firms are flooding the market with below-cost, compromising devices in order to give the Chinese government broad access to sensitive information [0] - Hong Kong is dying under the Chinese boot [1] - China is running concentration camps [2]…

> they whole problem here is that Hauwei and other state-sponsored Chinese firms are flooding the market with below-cost, compromising devices in order to give the Chinese government broad access to sensitive information [0]

Spying aside ( probably - just like US firms ) - isn't the real reason this is an issue at all is because Huawei actually has a technological lead.

Even this very biased article acknowledges that lead. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/12/huawei-china-5g-race-te...

To paint them as winning because they are 'flooding the market with below-cost' is frankly xenophobic - note they have out innovated - not copied - you can't copy yourself a technological lead.

The US appears in panic - imagine a world where CISCO kit ( a company that has obligations to the US state ) isn't installed everywhere - rather some other countries stuff.

If you want to constrain China, then you have to accept the rules that constrain everyone. The time where the US can lord it over everyone ( for better or worse ) is coming to an end - just as the British empire came to an end.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#197

Post by linuxftw »

antipropaganda wrote: post #105
mytailorisrich wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one is going to invade Switzerland. A country like the US can invade any country they want. International law is irrelevant. But they can pressure a country like Switzerland without needing to resort to military action, which would be crazy anyway in the case of Switzerland.

US can't just invade any country. US would find it very difficult to invade a country with second strike nuclear capability. Even if nuclear war is out of the question, US would find it very difficult to invade, say China: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/china-u...

The US doesn't normally invade. It's far more efficient to destabilize and prop up the preferred military junta.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#198

Post by oefrha »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #165
gonational wrote: post #149

> wants to ensure that universities, governments and companies outside the United States can help develop its open-source technology Read as: > wants to ensure that China... Let me see if I understand this correctly. US tax dollars funded (in part, via UC Berkeley) this technology, and now this organization is moving outside of the US specifically so that it can work with China in ways that the US would not appreciat…

The signals from the current US administration is pretty clear. It is a government that puts American interest ahead of any other concern. Naturally universities in other western countries are going to have their doubts about cooperating on crucial technology if it is under control by a government which only cares about national interests. Same reason I favor exiting NATO and building a European alliance only. The US…

> It is a government that puts American interest ahead of any other concern.

I always have a hard time swallowing the bullshit that is the American government ever held any other concern above American interest, whether the results were favorable notwithstanding.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#199

Post by linuxftw »

tanilama wrote: post #145
mytailorisrich wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one is going to invade Switzerland. A country like the US can invade any country they want. International law is irrelevant. But they can pressure a country like Switzerland without needing to resort to military action, which would be crazy anyway in the case of Switzerland.

US probably couldn't invade Russia or China, not on its own. I don't think they have the sheer number of men even. Those countries are huge.

Hey! The US uses all genders for killing others now.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#200

Post by wayoutthere »

riversflow wrote: post #185
wayoutthere wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morality is simply "things I like" and "things I don't like". It's not a good basis for policy, especially when moral standards vary significantly between individuals. It's a fool's errand to try to impose your morals on another person as if they were somehow superior (though that arrogance is the foundation of the American psyche). You literally just can't .

There are such things as universal human rights, and China is absolute violating of them. >You literally just can't. Right, which is why we let Hitler exterminate the Jews.

> There are such things as universal human rights, and China is absolute violation of them.

You mean the ones that the US routinely violates for "terrorists" and "criminals"? China uses the exact same rhetoric for the people whose rights it violates. The situation with the Uyghurs mirrors a lot of the tactics used in the 70s by American police against black Americans under the guise of the "war on drugs" (hint: our police and prison guards were way more abusive than many people realize).

> Right, which is why we let Hitler exterminate the Jews.

What else could we have done? Anti-semitism was considered morally acceptable at the time. The American people were completely against the war until Pearl Harbor. Then we locked anyone who looked Japanese or spoke German up in camps. What we were doing was the exact same thing Hitler said he was doing with the Jews.

Obviously in hindsight Hitler was awful and the Holocaust was frighteningly real. But the extent of the Holocaust was not understood until after the war. By the standards of the time, what Hitler said he was doing to the Jews didn't cross any hard moral lines -- to both the German people and most Americans.

I actually believe it's the belief in moral absolutes like this that allow monsters to perpetuate atrocities: people assume "well, no rational human would round up all the Jews and murder them" -- which is exactly why it was possible.

Post reply on HN