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The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

macworld.com

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Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#71

Post by gonational »

baybal2 wrote: post #32

> ...the Ive Doctrine: Always strive for the next version of your product to be thinner and lighter than the current one. I'd say it follows a rule of "every sequel to a hit movie is worse than original" more. I worked in OEM electronics since 2007, and I saw this happening all and every time with big public companies. In the industry, we have a term for that. We call it "Brand Fade" It is near impossible for a big c…

Exceptions to that rule are as follows:

- Terminator 2: Judgement Day

- Aliens

- Back to the Future Part 2

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#72

Post by scarface74 »

joeyzm wrote: post #70
scarface74 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So doesn’t that argue in favor of them dropping support of the headphone jack just for the versatility? But I mentioned in another reply that BT multipoint is a thing. The good standard BT headphones can support multiple devices.

No, my point was that since apple controls the software side, it is able to limit the features of other headphones, especially when it comes to seamless pairing and integration into the apple ecosystem. When the competition was EarPods vs. thousands of different 3.5mm connected headphones, apple had less power to throttle competition when the experience was almost indistinguishable.

How is it limiting competition? Any BT headphone maker can create headphones that pair to multiple devices. What awesome features could competitors do with a headphone jack that they couldn’t do by creating headphones with a lightning end?

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#73

Post by [deleted] »

joeyzm wrote: post #70
scarface74 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So doesn’t that argue in favor of them dropping support of the headphone jack just for the versatility? But I mentioned in another reply that BT multipoint is a thing. The good standard BT headphones can support multiple devices.

No, my point was that since apple controls the software side, it is able to limit the features of other headphones, especially when it comes to seamless pairing and integration into the apple ecosystem. When the competition was EarPods vs. thousands of different 3.5mm connected headphones, apple had less power to throttle competition when the experience was almost indistinguishable.

[deleted]

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#74

Post by pistoriusp »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #53
pistoriusp wrote: post #50

Want to love your current "bad keyboard" MBP again? Grab a wireless Apple Magic Keyboard and stick it directly on top of the current IVE keyboard and use Karabiner elements to disable the MBP's internal keyboard. I actually genuinely enjoy this computer now. A few days ago I was trying to figure out how to sell it and get a new 16" one, but honestly Apple doesn't deserve my money or attention anymore.

Can you imagine what people would say about PCs if one had to do this with a PC laptop?

It's insane. I hate this keyboard with a passion, but at least I have a "quick fix" that isn't going to make me give Apple much much more money.

The should recall these laptops.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#75

Post by Sarki »

johnchristopher wrote: post #42
slantyyz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the synergy of the Ive-Jobs relationship was that Ive was the "how it looks" guy, and Jobs was the "how it works" guy, and the "how it works" guy always had final say on a product. Looking at the past few years, it seems clear that the "how it looks" guy was the one with final say on a product.

Okay, friendly jab here: which one is responsible for putting USB ports in the back of iMacs, in such a position that I either strike luck and bent my wrist but get something plugged or I must stand up, move the keyboard and stuff on my desktop to grab the screen and move it around so I can plug something in and then turn the screen around again :-) ?

That's the reason why there was a USB port on each side of the original Apple keyboard (not the wireless one of course). These ports (on the back) are most likely located there with the idea of having a device pluggued in for good and not moved so often.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#76

Post by joeyzm »

scarface74 wrote: post #72
joeyzm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, my point was that since apple controls the software side, it is able to limit the features of other headphones, especially when it comes to seamless pairing and integration into the apple ecosystem. When the competition was EarPods vs. thousands of different 3.5mm connected headphones, apple had less power to throttle competition when the experience was almost indistinguishable.

How is it limiting competition? Any BT headphone maker can create headphones that pair to multiple devices. What awesome features could competitors do with a headphone jack that they couldn’t do by creating headphones with a lightning end?

Try to connect your friend's generic bluetooth headphones to share audio from your iphone while connected to your airpods. Now do it with another pair of airpods. Check the list of headphones on this support page: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210421. All apple-owned.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#77

Post by scarface74 »

joeyzm wrote: post #76
scarface74 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it limiting competition? Any BT headphone maker can create headphones that pair to multiple devices. What awesome features could competitors do with a headphone jack that they couldn’t do by creating headphones with a lightning end?

Try to connect your friend's generic bluetooth headphones to share audio from your iphone while connected to your airpods. Now do it with another pair of airpods. Check the list of headphones on this support page: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210421 . All apple-owned.

The argument was that Apple was denying the ability for third parties to create a feature by excluding the headphone jack. If Apple had a headphone jack you would get this:

https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Headphone-Splitter-Earphone-...

Instead of this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PB93C96

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#78

Post by dariusj18 »

As an example of the repercussions of such a decline, after years of being an Apple user (I switched from Windows to OS-X when they started making top of the line hardware and using x86 processors) I switched back to Windows because their hardware become subpar and far too expensive for it, the lack of an escape key was a big red flag to me. This also coincided with Microsoft's current embracing of developers (not just MS stack ones), a better OS with Windows 10 and WSL. It's been a little rocky, but I cannot see myself going back to OS-X unless MS messes things up big time.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#79

Post by willis936 »

nextos wrote: post #33
willis936 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What keyboard has high latency?

https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/

Unfortunately that’s only half good. It’s more typical to measure peripheral latency by connecting an LED to the switch to see when it’s actuated. This person performed an Apple 2s to oranges measurement by not controlling his keypress speed and not testing the Apple 2. The conclusions are based on feelings. Keyboard electronics are simple so short of severe mistakes they add negligible latency. HIDs are connected to interrupts so the OS should get the input pronto. The insanely large software stack will slow things down, but it isn’t the keyboard’s fault.

Edit: to exemplify the issue with this test: a poorly implemented capacitive touch keyboard would add 10 ms of latency and feel sluggish yet would be at the top of this chart.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#80

Post by johnchristopher »

Sarki wrote: post #75
johnchristopher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, friendly jab here: which one is responsible for putting USB ports in the back of iMacs, in such a position that I either strike luck and bent my wrist but get something plugged or I must stand up, move the keyboard and stuff on my desktop to grab the screen and move it around so I can plug something in and then turn the screen around again :-) ?

That's the reason why there was a USB port on each side of the original Apple keyboard (not the wireless one of course). These ports (on the back) are most likely located there with the idea of having a device pluggued in for good and not moved so often.

If memory serves me well those keyboard USB ports weren't amped enough to handle power hungry devices though.
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