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The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

macworld.com

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Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#31

Post by flir »

nextos wrote: post #7

I think Ive needed Jobs to provide some user feedback he would listen to ahead of product release. Without Jobs, it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track. Which is absurd given that their desktop keyboard is really good. I haven't bought any Apple products for years, except for their peripherals. Their touchpad is excellent, and there's no other alternative in the market I know of that works decently in…

Still rocking a 2013 here. Just got handed a 2019 for work purposes. It makes me sad.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#32

Post by baybal2 »

> ...the Ive Doctrine: Always strive for the next version of your product to be thinner and lighter than the current one.

I'd say it follows a rule of "every sequel to a hit movie is worse than original" more.

I worked in OEM electronics since 2007, and I saw this happening all and every time with big public companies. In the industry, we have a term for that. We call it "Brand Fade"

It is near impossible for a big company to resist the urge to "optimise" the product to improve profits after hit sales with hopes of consumers not noticing it.

This is what is happening with Dell now with each newer XPS generation coming out more penny pinched that the previous one.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#33

Post by nextos »

willis936 wrote: post #15
nextos wrote: post #7

I think Ive needed Jobs to provide some user feedback he would listen to ahead of product release. Without Jobs, it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track. Which is absurd given that their desktop keyboard is really good. I haven't bought any Apple products for years, except for their peripherals. Their touchpad is excellent, and there's no other alternative in the market I know of that works decently in…

What keyboard has high latency?

https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#35

Post by me_me_me »

willis936 wrote: post #15
nextos wrote: post #7

I think Ive needed Jobs to provide some user feedback he would listen to ahead of product release. Without Jobs, it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track. Which is absurd given that their desktop keyboard is really good. I haven't bought any Apple products for years, except for their peripherals. Their touchpad is excellent, and there's no other alternative in the market I know of that works decently in…

What keyboard has high latency?

Maybe he means key travel time?

I am also baffled by that comment.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#36

Post by whywhywhywhy »

nextos wrote: post #7

I think Ive needed Jobs to provide some user feedback he would listen to ahead of product release. Without Jobs, it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track. Which is absurd given that their desktop keyboard is really good. I haven't bought any Apple products for years, except for their peripherals. Their touchpad is excellent, and there's no other alternative in the market I know of that works decently in…

> it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track

This was a conscious decision, they could have reverted the mistake in 12 months if they had truly wanted. But it would require burning a production line and design roadmap that was supposed to last 3 years. Turned out having users buy an inherently faulty $2000+ product for 3 years and a repair program was the easier pill to swallow.

Tim Cook isn't a product person[0], he's never going to think of the actual product and its impact on the users in a way that could make that call.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#37

Post by big_chungus »

metalliqaz wrote: post #30

I'm dense. How does "Always strive for the next version of your product to be thinner and lighter than the current one." become "Ive Doctrine"?

He famously pushed it at the expense of good engineering, reliability, build quality, battery life, performance, and all the other things people want in a device. Apple over-indulged him.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#38

Post by mberning »

The iPhone 11 Pro was the first indication. Physically bigger, heavier, and with a larger battery than the outgoing model. I am very pleased to see them finally making a commitment to their "Pro" lines. A lot more could be done, and based on what we have seen, hopefully it will be.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#39

Post by joeyzm »

scarface74 wrote: post #25
joeyzm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced removing the headphone jack was purely a design decision, but rather strengthening apple's position in the accessories market, as it is able to control the software side of bluetooth headphones, making high margin airpods more attractive. With a headphone jack the playing field was flatter for other headphone manufacturers.

iPhones work with any BT headphones.

That is true. However, now apple controls the pairing process and is able to introduce features such as share audio that lets you use multiple airpods on the same device, and is probably working on a feature to make airpods work on all your apple products simultaneously.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#40

Post by baybal2 »

scarface74 wrote: post #16

Jason mentioned it on his podcast, but I didn’t see it in the article. The iPhone 11 Pros are also moving into the right direction. They are heavier, slightly thicker and have better battery life. The Apple battery cases have always been a case of function over form. They have always been butt ugly, but more functional than third party cases.

> Jason mentioned it on his podcast, but I didn’t see it in the article. The iPhone 11 Pros are also moving into the right direction. They are heavier, slightly thicker and have better battery life.

Yet, they completely squander the opportunity to go with square PCB design and single cell battery. They would've done so if they were really concerned about that.

Split cell design doesn't give net boost to battery capacity with such small cells and only 2 of them. It's more of a compromise to packaging and cost, than about battery capacity. Foxconn bills them per-part and per operation for assembly, so they put as much as they can on single PCB, and order as much of pre-assembled modules as possible. This may well cost them more than a two-pieces PCB, but tell that to MBA types.

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