The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#61

Post by snowwrestler » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #16

Jason mentioned it on his podcast, but I didn’t see it in the article. The iPhone 11 Pros are also moving into the right direction. They are heavier, slightly thicker and have better battery life. The Apple battery cases have always been a case of function over form. They have always been butt ugly, but more functional than third party cases.

The thinnest iPhone was the 6 and 6s. Every phone since then has been thicker to accommodate new technologies and bigger batteries. Recent Apple Watches are also bigger than the earliest models.

I understand why Snell wrote this article now--to tap some pageviews off the public interest in the 16" Macbook Pro announcement--but his fundamental thesis is wrong.

Apple has always balanced size vs functionality; it has not been a continuous track toward thinner and thinner under Jobs or Ive. Where they have made major missteps, it is because they guessed wrong about technology, not some Ive-driven quest for thinness at all costs.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#62

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #13

raxxorrax wrote: post #2

Wow, this website eats CPU processing power like candy. It distracts from reading if your fan screams at you.

It works fine with scripts disabled.

I also used no ad blocker since it was a test browser (vanilla Chrome). Grave mistake.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#63

Post by snowwrestler » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

lewiscollard wrote: post #59

1234_uuuuu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed just how many websites my '19 MacBook Air struggles with. That's not an indictment of the Air, which I bought fully cognizant of the battery / heat / power tradeoffs. The Air is happy to run native design, etc. software. The only time I feel its performance limitations is when I'm browsing the goddamned web . Running a Pro most of the time it's easy to overlook just what utter pigs many websites are today.…

I'll put money on that not being the engineers; I'm guessing that a dev merely added Google Tag Manager and someone in sales/digital marketing went to town on it. Still, yep, I disabled uBlock Origin and that site is bad (on my work's 2015 Macbook Pro). I like disabling it on news sites every now and then to remind me just how utterly fucking unusable much of the Web is without it.

Ghostery extension tells me that there are 105 (ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE) trackers loaded by the article page.

Wow. I'm not even mad, I'm impressed.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#64

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

sudhirj wrote: post #3

Certainly seems that way, but it's discouraging that Ive and Apple had to part ways just for Apple to get back on track. Very much a case of either dying a hero or living long enough to become the villian. I use this as a reminder not to drink my own kool aid. Even if I'm being recognized at being good at something, it's not an excuse to double down on it and push it too hard. No one is applauded for being judiciousl…

heck I am beginning to wonder if Ive is the reason the current iMac chassis has been around so long. as in all proposed designs were either too expensive or even more compromised in form.

the new Mac Pro, is whose fault? it seems more celebration of Apple than designing for the user base that made the most noise. it certainly is more for image than functionality, the costs could have been reigned in a bit

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#65

Post by vile_wretch » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #42

slantyyz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the synergy of the Ive-Jobs relationship was that Ive was the "how it looks" guy, and Jobs was the "how it works" guy, and the "how it works" guy always had final say on a product. Looking at the past few years, it seems clear that the "how it looks" guy was the one with final say on a product.

Okay, friendly jab here: which one is responsible for putting USB ports in the back of iMacs, in such a position that I either strike luck and bent my wrist but get something plugged or I must stand up, move the keyboard and stuff on my desktop to grab the screen and move it around so I can plug something in and then turn the screen around again :-) ?

I suspect that would have been something they both agreed on. Ives being Ives and Jobs being the type of person who refused to sell a mouse with two buttons until the second "button" could be hidden away behind a touch interface.

Though to be fair any of the displays I've used with USB ports also have them situated around the back. I guess it's a bit different when you're talking about the only ports on the computer vs. ports added for convenience.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#66

Post by snowwrestler » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

workthrowaway wrote: post #46

nextos wrote: post #7

I think Ive needed Jobs to provide some user feedback he would listen to ahead of product release. Without Jobs, it's taken Apple years to get keyboards back on track. Which is absurd given that their desktop keyboard is really good. I haven't bought any Apple products for years, except for their peripherals. Their touchpad is excellent, and there's no other alternative in the market I know of that works decently in…

> Their touchpad is excellent... exception: the 2017 macbook pro trackpad. it's not great. i don't know how many times i had to plug a mouse in to get drag and drop to work...

I always go into accessibility settings and enable three-finger click and drag. It seems by far the most easily usable way to do that on a trackpad.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#67

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

diroussel wrote: post #49

scarface74 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones work with any BT headphones.

But most BT headphones don’t work seemlessly between laptop and phone. You usually have to unpair from you phone to pair to you laptop. With a headphone jack I can unplug from my phone and plug into my laptop. But once those devices loose headphone jacks I can’t just switch to BT headphones. But I can switch to AirPods. Which seem quite expensive. What other Bluetooth headphones can easily switch from my MacBook to m…

There are plenty of Bluetooth headphones that support Multipoint

https://phiaton.com/blogs/audio/bluetooth-multipoint-pairing...

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#68

Post by thefounder » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #54

thefounder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> also moving into the right direction. They are heavier, slightly thicker and have better battery life. The worst thing about the latest iphones(10, pro) is that they got heavier. I find it so bad that I skipped the upgrade(s) because of that.

How much heavier than your current phone were they? (I'm not suggesting anyone updates, just curious how much weight caused this to be the primary decision point.)

Heavier to the point that I experience pain handling it for long periods of times especially if I have to use one hand only. Shortly said the weight makes it uncomfortable to use. A clear example where "syle"/fashion is valued more than usuability.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#69

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

joeyzm wrote: post #39

scarface74 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones work with any BT headphones.

That is true. However, now apple controls the pairing process and is able to introduce features such as share audio that lets you use multiple airpods on the same device, and is probably working on a feature to make airpods work on all your apple products simultaneously.

So doesn’t that argue in favor of them dropping support of the headphone jack just for the versatility?

But I mentioned in another reply that BT multipoint is a thing. The good standard BT headphones can support multiple devices.

Re: The 16-inch MacBook Pro is a repudiation of the ‘Ive Doctrine’

#70

Post by joeyzm » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #69

joeyzm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true. However, now apple controls the pairing process and is able to introduce features such as share audio that lets you use multiple airpods on the same device, and is probably working on a feature to make airpods work on all your apple products simultaneously.

So doesn’t that argue in favor of them dropping support of the headphone jack just for the versatility? But I mentioned in another reply that BT multipoint is a thing. The good standard BT headphones can support multiple devices.

No, my point was that since apple controls the software side, it is able to limit the features of other headphones, especially when it comes to seamless pairing and integration into the apple ecosystem. When the competition was EarPods vs. thousands of different 3.5mm connected headphones, apple had less power to throttle competition when the experience was almost indistinguishable.