Edward R. Murphy (XO), personal history of the incident:
USS Pueblo
81–90 of 118 posts
Re: USS Pueblo
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
My favorite in particular in this line of "geopolitical I'm not touching you" is what we call "freedom of navigation exercises". The US runs through the South China Sea on them all the time. Basically, China says it's their territory, the US says it is international waters. And so we "prove" it by regularly traveling through it with US warships for no other purpose then to prove we can.
Yup. How else can you stop Chinese colonialism?
US neo-colonialism is your answer?
Re: USS Pueblo
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Liberty is a common antisemitic talking point. It is an incident in which the Israeli military attacked and killed American troops. Both the deliberateness and the potential motive of the attack are unknown and unexplained. It doesn't take much for the conspiracy theorists to turn that into "Jews want to kill Americans".
the idea is that it was a false flag attack to lure the US into intervening in the 6 day war on behalf of israel; its appeal to antisemites, sympathists of liberty sailors, american opponents of israel, or even just trolls should be pretty obvious
The possibility of a false flag to start a war doesn't seem so outlandish when you consider the context of the era. Only a few years earlier you had the U.S. Department of Defense proposing plans to carry out terrorist attacks on American soil and blame the Cubans for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Another example from the same era was the second Gulf of Tonkin incident which lead to the Vietnam War. In the 2000's Robert McNamara finally admitted the second incident never happened.
Re: USS Pueblo
#84Re: USS Pueblo
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I spent 2 semesters teaching computer science at PUST How do you feel about educating the future hackers in the North Korean military? You almost certainly contributed to their ability to wage cyberwarfare.
As someone who has professional experience running/developing cyberwarfare and nuclear military operations with the US military, I can unequivocally state that the work I did at PUST was not developing these capabilities for North Korea. Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are a great way to improve relations between the US and DPRK, building on the model of how educati…
But you taught computer science, yes? Would you say that it's difficult to teach someone hacking if they don't already have a working understanding of core computer science principles? If hackers in NK don't have access to digital infrastructure set up by other engineers, their work would be much more difficult if not impossible.
>Western experts who study the DPRK largely agree with me that educational exchanges are a great way to improve relations
Would you make a distinction between disciplines of agricultural engineering and more dangerous ones, such as nuclear science or aeronautical engineering?
Re: USS Pueblo
#86I always wonder about claims like this where one nation says a ship was within their borders and the other nation says it was in international waters. This USS Pueblo is one incident. Israel attacked a Turkish ship in international waters. Iran attacked oil tankers in international waters. All these incidents ... I can't help but think we never grow up as human beings all the way until becoming international super po…
Or like the US and Russia always intercepting each other's aircraft. When reported in the media there's often a lot of bellyaching, i.e. "we were just minding our own business flying in international airspace, and then they showed up and intercepted, and they were so rude !" Like, maybe if you hadn't been flying your bombers or your spy planes 13 nautical miles from their coast they would be a bit friendlier. Nobody…
It's not really a big deal in military terms. It's almost like a joint exercise. The only problem is when an aircraft flies unsafely close.
Re: USS Pueblo
#87Re: USS Pueblo
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
How were you able to visit it, honest question? As an American myself, I wouldn't dare set foot in that country. Was a visit there an easy experience? Would you go back?
I went when Americans were still allowed to go, with Koryo Tours, who I'd recommend strongly. As the only way to get in is with a tour agency, it's actually a very easy trip to arrange. All you have to do is get to Beijing, the agency takes care of the rest. That said, I wouldn't call it an easy destination while you're there, depending on your personality type. You have no freedom of movement, are pretty transparent…
Or where have said to have done something dumb.
Re: USS Pueblo
#89That would make a good movie.
That's exactly what I was thinking. This would make a great movie/book.
Re: USS Pueblo
#90I always wonder about claims like this where one nation says a ship was within their borders and the other nation says it was in international waters. This USS Pueblo is one incident. Israel attacked a Turkish ship in international waters. Iran attacked oil tankers in international waters. All these incidents ... I can't help but think we never grow up as human beings all the way until becoming international super po…
My favorite in particular in this line of "geopolitical I'm not touching you" is what we call "freedom of navigation exercises". The US runs through the South China Sea on them all the time. Basically, China says it's their territory, the US says it is international waters. And so we "prove" it by regularly traveling through it with US warships for no other purpose then to prove we can.
Probably because if you let them, it might become their territory?