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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

gitlab.com

241–250 of 584 posts

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done some travelling to risky places before (Kiev and other places) and even though the networks were hostile there, I still don't understand the point of pretending that Russia et al can't get into Gitlab whenever they want to. They can. Air-gapping isn't going to slow them down.

Or just bribing people in “allowed” countries.

I think it would probably be costly to bribe someone in the "allowed" countries. I'm not going to risk going to prison for some small sum of money, and a large sum of money is logistically difficult to give me. People will ask questions, the scheme will probably be found out.

Meanwhile, if the government can just arrest you and say "change this repository and you go free", it's essentially free.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#242

I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition?

The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sensitive to any outside commentary or criticism, eg: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-31/china-warns-australia...

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#243
This is just ridiculous. It is truly unfair to discriminate people based on the country of their birth. It's not like they had a choice.

Am I the only one who thinks that both China and Russia have spies who are not native Chinese or Russians? And are people really naive to believe that a stupid decision like this would prevent China or Russia from trying to obtain the information they need (if they really want it)

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#244
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks. Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?

> "If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks. Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?" I'm all for background checks. Those at-least try to give everyone an equal opportunity - and if you fail them, you'll know why and have a c…

The issue is not necessarily the background checks but the fact that you can be compelled by the state you reside in after the fact. For example the state could target known employees of GitHub after they are employed and checks passed.

I'm not suggesting any national correlation here. I suspect the same is true for Chinese and Russian companies too!

As for the defence sector it is not enjoying it, at least in Europe as the incoming staff into the sector are shrivelling up pretty rapidly.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#245
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, China is finally following US policies on full takes. Not entirely unexpected. The difference is that China observes their borders, whilst the USA does full takes everywhere they can, which is everywhere in the west.

What is a full take, what do you mean by US policies on full takes, and can I also have a source on US performing full takes everywhere in the west? Thanks!

The USA Cloud Act of 2018.

Every US company must hand over any customer data held anywhere, by any subsidiary or joint venture, on earth at the request of the US government.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in USA? Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. >China has been using our money ... The best way is to vote with your money then?

> Are you in USA? No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage. > Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. I would wish so, but I'm realistic enough to know no government wants to put themselves into the spotlight of Trump's Twitter…

I think Turks have the right to defend their borders

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#247
post #193
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks. Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?

I think that last paragraph is suggesting that GitLab could simply reject such clients - or better, direct them to the self-hosted plan where they have full access control.

That's a fair point for sure.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> totally excluding China from any and all international trade I don't have an opinion whether this is the right thing to do or not. But regardless of my opinion, how does not hiring chinese citizens help with that? This just sounds like harassing chinese people because of their government. If you really wanted to change something, hiring chinese people and showing them what the western world is like would be the bes…

> Harassing

Harassing : the action of subjecting someone to aggressive pressure or intimidation.

Where do you see any harassment ?

Gitlab has no Chinese or Russian employee so far -> so nobody got pressure or intimidate, ffs.

China is harassing the rest of the world. China is systematically spying with state wide support. China is bullying with military, economic or soft power. China is a threat.

* Recently, in France, concerns were raised by the intelligence community about the outsized number of young Chinese students flirting / marrying with military & defence engineers. You don't even need to spy, really, just marrying people to stop any aggressive ideas toward China spreading. I mean, you would not push to war against your wife's birth place where you are now visiting every year, right ?

* Apple spotted 2 cases, how many are missed ? https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/30/18203718/apple-self-drivi...

* Lol, there is a whole wikipedia page on the topic, just for the USA : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_espionage_in_the_Unite...

* In the European Union, they buy big companies from small countries to get leverage on EU decision making process. https://www.ft.com/content/d7145792-4743-11e9-b168-96a37d002...

Gitlab is simply pragmatic and clear-minded, their teams works in transparency and trust, they can't handle potential threats without a deep rework. I think it's much more than just having permissions baked in their systems, it's the whole defence industries layering that they would need to acquire.

Western players are now actively reducing their Chinese exposure (buying less critical stuff from their factories, cf. Huawei's affairs, moving factories to others countries). I am afraid it's too little too late.

While western people, and even more highly educated western people, have low levels of nationalism, Chinese people are brain-washed into thinking it's the best country in the world, best ever. Helping China is very important and their authorities have lots of leeway to push this.

Currently using Gitlab, I am glad they are aware of the issue and of their limited capacity to stop it from inside. Putting the fox in charge of the hen house, am I right ?

> if you really wanted to change something :

It's not West mission to bring democracy in China, it's not our country, they are grown up already and will keep finding their own way. It's typically USA ego to think the whole world must be awoken to USA values. The rest of the world is fine, thank you very much. We witness South America's fate in the XX century and Middle East's fate in the XXI. China just want western technology : buying, trading or spying it.

The most idiotic course of action has been followed already by moving the whole factories chains to China and thinking we could keep the knowledge here while it is applied there.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#249
post #212
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does make you a liability. Australians can be shanghai'ed into working for the Australian intelligence agencies wherever they are on Earth. I'm also an Australian living overseas, have worked on many sensitive projects that would be of interest to the Australian government and its masters, and I'm quite prepared to give up my nationality over this issue.

Ah okay, yeah I think I'll get citizenship somewhere else

At this point I think its the only thing Australians can do about their country.

Australians will never be afforded an opportunity to overthrow their government, nor will we get the revolutions our demonstrations hope for.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#250
post #133

If you want to be serious about it, you probably have to temporarily revoke access privileges for anyone in that job role who is traveling there too.

You can never be sure, that the guy didn't sell his soul to intelligence agency and some government official during his visit. Better completely terminate the account and fire the employee if (s)he happened to travel there.

/sarcasm (just in case)

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