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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#211

Post by jakobegger »

mschuster91 wrote: post #203
jakobegger wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I on the other hand think that splitting countries into allies and enemies is stupid. China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea. If you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS where every customer service rep has full access to all your data.…

[flagged]

> totally excluding China from any and all international trade

I don't have an opinion whether this is the right thing to do or not.

But regardless of my opinion, how does not hiring chinese citizens help with that? This just sounds like harassing chinese people because of their government.

If you really wanted to change something, hiring chinese people and showing them what the western world is like would be the best thing to do.

Harassing chinese people because of their government, and at the same time buying all the stuff their factories produce, sounds like the most idiotic course of action if you want to change the status quo.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#212

Post by LIV2 »

mmjaa wrote: post #165
LIV2 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Aussie living & working overseas I'm still not sure if it applies to me and makes me a liability? I know they can't enforce it unless I go home but I will someday

It does make you a liability. Australians can be shanghai'ed into working for the Australian intelligence agencies wherever they are on Earth. I'm also an Australian living overseas, have worked on many sensitive projects that would be of interest to the Australian government and its masters, and I'm quite prepared to give up my nationality over this issue.

Ah okay, yeah I think I'll get citizenship somewhere else

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#213

Post by daseiner1 »

RomanPushkin wrote: post #71

> "It seems odd that we proclaim that we will accept any customer not prohibited by law (b5a35716) but we are implementing controls that impact employees based on a perceived political climate. This is contradictory." Second this

That’s not at all contradictory. Employees aren’t customers.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#214

Post by droidno9 »

490d0aff0ee8 wrote: post #185

It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…

Companies don't make decisions based on morality.

This is a question of liability. Gitlab's liability, based on whatever internal metrics being measured, would be significantly higher than the potential economic rewards of having employees in sensitive positions in these two countries--at the moment.

Also, on a side note, morality != legality. They're two different things. What is moral isn't necessarily illegal, and vice versa.

There's no need to beat up the strawman "techbro." It seems to me that this was a difficult decision to make and somebody had to make it.

Damned if you do; damned if you don't.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#215

Post by [deleted] »

type0 wrote: post #37
angry_octet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have legal authority to prevent you from resigning. Also, the proposed anti-boycott rules have been widely criticized as unconstitutional, unworkable and ludicrously against the conservatives free speech pronouncements. Unlikely they would get support from Senate cross bench.

They could compel your employer not to accept the resignation before the correct procedures are done and you have completed the task.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#217

Post by microcolonel »

thekevan wrote: post #204
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #19

I'm shocked (in a positive way) about the amount of transparency Gitlab provides. Even as a reader, it almost feels as if someone misconfigured the ACLs or I'm reading leaked internal documents, not an intentional decision to make this open. Some of the discussions seem highly sensitive, and yet it seems to work for them. Thank you, Gitlab, for being so open! I've learned a lot about compliance from just reading this…

Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel? I am in the US, so can not say, "I disagree with how the Israeli government is treating Palestine and thus don't want to do business with any entity located there."?

> Wait, am I to understand that this law says I cannot boycott doing business with businesses located in Israel?

No.

That link the parent commenter shared is a very good overview: it basically means that your company will not receive special corporate tax consideration if your company:

Enters agreements to refuse or actually refuses to do business with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies.

Enters agreements to discriminate or actually discriminates against other persons based on race, religion, sex, national origin or nationality.

Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes information about business relationships with or in Israel or with blacklisted companies.

Enters agreements to furnish or actually furnishes of information about the race, religion, sex, or national origin of another person.

(e.g. “hey [anti-Semitic company], this competing businessperson is a Jew, if you were wondering”)

In any of these cases, there are exceptions and matters of interpretation.

Whether or not you think this is appropriate for the government, it's not as simple as “you can't engage in a boycott as a matter of personal conscience”.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#219

Post by mschuster91 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #207
mschuster91 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you in USA? Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. >China has been using our money ... The best way is to vote with your money then?

> Are you in USA?

No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage.

> Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue.

I would wish so, but I'm realistic enough to know no government wants to put themselves into the spotlight of Trump's Twitter account and trade war threats.

>> China has been using our money ...

> The best way is to vote with your money then?

We as individuals can't do shit about international trade. No matter if I live vegan or not, pigs will be slaughtered in inhumane conditions. No matter if I drive an SUV or not, climate change will grow. Systemic issues need to be dealt with those who have been elected for this job.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#220

Post by hkai »

490d0aff0ee8 wrote: post #185

It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…

If it makes no sense whatsoever, why do you think it makes sense to some other people?
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