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GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#621

Post by dang »

sascha_sl wrote: post #549
Thorentis wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a false dichotomy at all. Businesses should have a moral position, sure. That moral position should be right? According to who? The business itself? Then that second point is redundant. Everybody thinks their moral position is right, that's what morals are. It's a tautology otherwise. GitHub employees think their moral position on ICE is right. Many disagree. But according to them that's fine, because the…

To draw a parallel between an organization that runs concentration camps (in a similar state to early nazi camps before they were extermination camps, nuance please) and one that refuses to provide services based on an anarchic justification for bigotry is either truly vile or exceedingly cynic.

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. Such discussions are repetitive and predictable and deteriorate as they go along. That makes them off topic here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#622

Post by chipotle_coyote »

manigandham wrote: post #607
drjesusphd wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case then there's no room whatsoever for capitalism to be anything other than an amoral system we should be ashamed of. Vote with your dollar. You're allowed to make your own moral choices and refuse to contribute to evil.

Capitalism is nothing but an economic system where you own the means to production. There is no inherent morality. Nobody has an issue with you making choices and voting with your dollars. The issue is forcing those choices on everyone else (as in a business, especially as a non-owner) through your own interpretation of morality.

I'm not an economist, but I'm pretty sure the system where workers own the means of production isn't capitalism.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#623

Post by gok »

ken wrote: post #229
gok wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm so you think a GitHub union would be less likely to work with a unionized government agency?

Yes. Organizing doesn't mean you fire everybody and hire new pro-union workers. It's the same people. They're just given a more direct power structure for dealing with management. When you take people who are already vocally upset with the company's ICE contracts, and give them negotiating power with management, you're not going to suddenly see them turn pro-ICE just because they have a union and ICE also has a union…

Why do you think no major union is boycotting ICE?

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#624

Post by V-eHGsd_ »

umeshunni wrote: post #410
supernova87a wrote: post #348

I question how much an employee should concern him/herself with how a product is used once it's created. You have to let certain control go after a point. Or if your product is open to everyone, you'll have to live with the fact that people may use it in ways you disagree with. Xerox or Canon (or whoever) probably makes copiers that ICE uses to make copies. Lenovo or Apple probably makes hardware that they use also t…

> Why don't the employees at all these other companies object like Github employees Because those companies aren't based in the woke-wasteland of San Francisco bay area.

so edgy.

also, quite wrong. microsoft [1], amazon [2], not bay area companies.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/we-did-not-sign-devel... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/business/dealbook/amazon-...

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#625

Post by slykat »

mattigames wrote: post #620
slykat wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think this is a short term action. I think of this as a non-action. If Github pulls the ICE contract they will just use a competitor (Gitlab has already gone on record saying they will not restrict customers based on moral viewpoints). And regardless of which cloud code collaboration tool ICE uses, they will still be locking kids in detention camps and trampling human rights. No behavior change will…

If I have learn anything about politics is that very well documented facts don't always have more importance in the public eyes than the noise made about a subject, the full political campaign of Trump had practically 0% of any truth whatsoever, just rambling insults and other easily-repeated slogans void of any truth but emotional appeals to a big chunk of the voting population; and he won with millions of votes. So…

I agree that noise can impact change, but the problem here is we've already got this noise within the Blue states. In order to get a policy change you need to have majority of Congress which means the noise needs to be felt on the Red states. So yea, if this was happening in a corporation based in Texas, Florida, or Georgia, I'd believe this was an action. Right now this exposure is going into publications that target people who already share the same viewpoint as the protestors.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#626

Post by jassmith87 »

nimbius wrote: post #28

The question I am most curious about is this: would Github have done this before Microsoft acquired them? Redmond has a long running history of doing backflips for Washington.

They already were doing this before Microsoft, so yes... yes they would.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#627

Post by joshypants »

netsharc wrote: post #417
joshypants wrote: post #16

I don't know if companies realize that contracts with ICE are going to hurt their talent recruitment too, but they do. I recently decided against applying to a role I saw posted for Wayfair because they ignored employee demands to end their ICE contract, and I know I'm not alone.

Sad to see you get downvoted... I guess one would need to send an "anti-job application" to HR to let them know that their policy has turned you off to them (and I guess you'd need to attach your CV to show them what they'll be missing out on...). It would be the right thing to do, IMO, but I would be scared to do it in case the company does become more attractive (shall we invent the newspeak phrase "more morally co…

I’ve thought about doing it anonymously, and might now. Thanks for the encouragement.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#629

Post by icelancer »

aeturnum wrote: post #599
icelancer wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> race Unless you're Asian/Asian-American, of course. Then it is fine to negatively discriminate against you. https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/10/03/judge-rules-in-favo...

I haven't read enough on the Harvard admission scandal to have an opinion. That said, there are lots of services that consider protected class in ways that aren't currently considered discriminatory. Ladies nights, for instance, are not illegal. Giving discounts to senior citizens is not considered discriminating against others. All that said - those corner cases are always being considered and questioned. There are…

>> Ladies nights

>> Senior citizens

These discriminate against advantaged parts of the protected classes, which is generally seen as reasonable. Men and young people, respectively.

Including Asians/Asian-Americans in the "advantaged group" is... something of a stretch.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#630

Post by dang »

d-smoke wrote: post #600
baggy_trough wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect HN to investigate the truth of individual comments?

I expect them not to delete rebuttals to outright lies

You created this account to post personal attacks like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21415586. That's obviously a bannable offence on HN, so we've banned the account.

If you're seeing abuse on HN you should take that up with us at hn@ycombinator.com, not come to the threads to violate the site guidelines. If your concern is the truth, there are better ways to defend it that don't violate the guidelines. If you want to smite enemies, that's not what this site is for.

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