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Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

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Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#311

Post by calgoo »

fluffything wrote: post #126
tremon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distribution of power, yes. Separation of power, no. As long as Spain's judiciary still sees it fit to hand out multi-year sentences to people peacefully following democratic principles, they seem very much an extension of the government and not an independent body.

> As long as Spain's judiciary still sees it fit to hand out multi-year sentences to people peacefully following democratic principles, they seem very much an extension of the government and not an independent body. The judiciary follows the laws, which are written by the senate, which is elected by the spanish people. So those "people peacefully following democratic principles" being arrested is the will of the Span…

Its very easy to just say to vote better. But when there is as much corruption in the government as there is in Spain its not that easy. When all the parties are "crap", then who do you vote for? If they make it too hard to start a party that goes against the current government, to the point of shutting down the government for over a year, then you can easily see that its not that simple.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#312

Post by ETHisso2017 »

davidito wrote: post #304

Native speaker of Castillian Spanish here. IMO the most critical sentence in this judicial order was mistranslated by GitHub, changing our understanding of the government's request and casting GitHub's response in a more negative light (if you believe information and communication tools should be free.) The original language in the last paragraph is "...para solicitar la retención del contenido y los datos relacionad…

So retener is like retention?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#313

Post by maxwell »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #119
zozbot234 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is if a democracy can be called democratic if it's impossible/unlawful for minorities to secede. Well, as both Americans and Spanish might say, "we had a war to settle that issue." The U.S. have been a republic (what you call a "democracy") for the entirety of their history as a nation, and yet unilateral secession is clearly forbidden.

I think OP is asking whether such countries, including the US, are indeed democratic, or just called that like Congo is called democratic, (not to the same degree obviously, but the same principle).

Perhaps the American Republic ended in 1869 with Texas v. White, succeeded by the American Empire.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#314

Post by lostphilosopher »

rtkwe wrote: post #250
iagovar wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the accusation of terrorism is too much, but honestly some of the actions are worrying. I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from, but I understand why so many Catalonians are angry and protest for. But I also understand what different police forces are facing. You get actions like putting trees and blocks of concrete on railroads, making it very dangerous for passengers and…

> And they see this people is using P2P technology which is almost impossible to control, so they use all legal means at their disposal. I'm not a legal expert but I'd bet that going through the terrorism route is the only way they have to do something about it. Framing it another way they're using trumped up terrorism charges to invoke powers that were not meant to be used against protests. Police powers are intenti…

This is a fundamental question any government or citizenry has to ask itself:

Under what circumstances, if any, should the police stand down?

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#315

Post by [deleted] »

lentil_soup wrote: post #236
manuelflara wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What a tremendously uneducated comment. Freedom of expression has not being limited in Spain in any way or form, not at all. What an ironic couple of sentences tied together... In Spain we have rappers who have been sentenced to jail time for having lyrics criticizing the King. If that isn't limiting freedom of expression, I don't know what is. Reference: https://www.elperiodico.com/es/ocio-y-cultura/20180221/valto…

I think he's talking about the Github takedown notice, not about Spain in general

[deleted]

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#316

Post by snvzz »

yiyus wrote: post #291
rndgermandude wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all fine and dandy, but it presumes the participating states actually want to be part of the union. Otherwise it's tyranny in my humble opinion.

We have a constitution that was voted in referendum in 1978. Most people in Catalonia voted in favor of these constitution, and Catalan parties have been an essential part of the governments we have had since then. Moreover, not even half of people in Catalonia (more or less) want independence.

>Moreover, not even half of people in Catalonia (more or less) want independence.

The results of the elections and the independence referendum strongly disagree.

>Most people in Catalonia (1978) voted in favor of these constitution,

Unlike those that voted the Estatut d'Autonomia (see below), many of these people are dead. There was no alternative to this constitution as it happened in a very unstable climate after the death of the dictator, where the constitution was seen as the one way to stabilize the country and advance towards a democracy.

And the fact people want this is in no way unrelated to what happened to the Estatut d'Autonomia, which defines the relationship between Catalonia and Spain. The current version of the document was written in Catalonia, revised and cut several times until Spain was OK with it, then voted in a referendum in Catalonia and put into effect, only to be cut down dramatically shortly after by the constitutional court, acting on the behalf of a Spanish nationalist political party which gets almost no votes at all in Catalonia. This was perceived as a massive insult to Catalan people.

Not only the situation was not repaired, but Spain's attacks on Catalonia's self government continued. This is the main reason why independence took a hold, perceived as the only option going forward.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#317

Post by imglorp »

imglorp wrote: post #63
giancarlostoro wrote: post #14

Whats embarassing here is that Spain now joins the likes of China and Russia regardless of whom in the government sent the request , at least in the context of government takedowns. https://github.com/github/gov-takedowns/ This is quite shameful.

I encourage people to read some of the offensive material in that repo. I went fishing out of curiosity and the first thing I found was, 1. Communism is the devil, whose purpose is to destroy humanity. It was a well informed treatise on the history of abusive regimes and worth reminding the West what we're enjoying and what we can lose.

And... there's the downvote brigade.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#318

Post by supahfly_remix »

davidito wrote: post #304

Native speaker of Castillian Spanish here. IMO the most critical sentence in this judicial order was mistranslated by GitHub, changing our understanding of the government's request and casting GitHub's response in a more negative light (if you believe information and communication tools should be free.) The original language in the last paragraph is "...para solicitar la retención del contenido y los datos relacionad…

If that's the case, then github was already compliant with the order as the code is checked in. The Spanish gov't would just need the correct git hash of the repo state they are interested in.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#319

Post by rndgermandude »

pjc50 wrote: post #288
rndgermandude wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is tightly integrated into the EU economical and political system. They are breaking away unilaterally. The reason they can do so is that they wouldn't have entered in the first place if there was no instrument to leave again like this (Article 50). The Catalans never voluntarily agreed to be part of Spain as far as I know. They were essentially annexed a long time ago. And yet Spain says they have to stay no…

Article 50 was retrofitted: at the time of joining the EC (as it was then) in 1973, there was no defined mechanism for leaving.

The EC was hardly the same as the EU.

But sure, the EC not having had a defined process there was an oversight. But it was clear that the EC would not prevent the UK or any other member from leaving should they have chosen to do so. They wouldn't have arrested the Queen and replaced the UK members of parliament with EC people.

Article 50 really is just about establishing a procedure for an orderly withdrawal from the union (well, not that orderly in practice it would seem).

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#320

Post by komarrian »

zentropia wrote: post #80
komarrian wrote: post #2

This is outrageous "Tsunami Democratic" has not coordinated any terrorist attack nor has an attack taken place in Spain... They are abusing antiterrorist laws to quash peaceful protests and GitHub is complying.

At least they ordered to occupy the airport and that alone is a serious offense.

Even if what you say is true, it is not terrorism...
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