Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

newsweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 110 posts

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#101

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ceejayoz wrote: post #97
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair demand of a schoolboy (at the time)

That's why I think it's unfair to assume the cause of said headaches is CO2, when other explanations - like OP's acknowledged sleep deprivation - suffice.

Not at all, we should not judge against the OP. Both conclusions are perfectly reasonable, have precedent, and could both be true simultaneously. ‘The essence of critical thinking is suspended judgement; the essence of this suspense is inquiry to determine the nature of the problem before proceeding.’ Unless you will conduct further inquiry, you should stop at suspending judgement.

It appears to me that your judgement is based on prejudice against teenage behaviour rather than evidence.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#103

Post by subsaharancoder »

pfranz wrote: post #55
gruez wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>By that logic, if we moved school to 5 am, he would have simply only stayed up until 10 pm. I believe that. >Is that particularly realistic? The only issue is that at 5am, there won't be daylight during the winter. Lack of daylight presents safety issues and makes it more difficult to wake up.

It's pretty well studied that most teenagers stay up late. My freshman year of high school my school was under construction so I was bussed across town. Which meant I had to wake up close to 5am. I don't remember staying up especially late, but I was perpetually tired. Id sleep on the bus both ways. In college I had a semester when I had a 5am class. I found it much easier to stay up all night and crash after than to…

This "most teenagers stay up late" must be unique to U.S./European teenagers with access to computers, video games, mobile phones, internet and lax parental supervision. As someone who went to boarding school from age 14-18 years where sleep and wake up time was well regulated I can tell you for a fact that we all looked forward to sleep time. Most students preferred waking up earlier to study to take advantage of the quiet and focus.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#104

Post by subsaharancoder »

Long story short, parents need to consistently enforce strong rules regarding lights out time at an early age and eliminate excessive external stimuli as the day winds down. This idea that teenagers who can't make responsible choices are left to define their sleep time as well as other rules borders on child abuse.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#105

Post by pingyong »

matwood wrote: post #77
zeta0134 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also stayed up until 1-2am, regularly, starting around junior high. I performed a great many tasks, mostly teaching myself various programming languages, always at the relative expense of my concentration in the next day's classes. Two things were the primary motivating factors in developing this habit: - My parents wouldn't leave me alone for very long in the evenings, so I felt like I wouldn't get a chance to rea…

> I get my best work done in the evenings, and so do lots of other people. Have you ever tried shifting to mornings? I used to think as you and started getting up early (and going to bed earlier), and was much more productive. My focus in particular was much higher because there so much fewer distractions. Not saying this is you, but I had an old boss who thought he did his best work at night. Except, I had to come i…

Not OP, but I had a very similar high school experience. I basically have two "stable" sleep rhythms: Go to sleep at 4 am, wake up at ~1 pm (the "lazy person" cycle), or got to sleep at 6 pm, wake up at ~3 am (the "I can't categorize this" cycle) - unfortunately, neither are very compatible with normal people. The second one is alright for work, but tends to kill every last bit of your social life for obvious reasons. So I'm kinda stuck with a daily ritual of trying to fall asleep at 11 pm and trying to somehow get out of bed after an hour long struggle at 8 am. Also I'm about 3 times as productive at work after 2 pm, because before that, I just feel like a zombie.

On the plus side, if something has to get done, I don't mind staying until 10 pm too much.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#106

Post by ceejayoz »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #101
ceejayoz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I think it's unfair to assume the cause of said headaches is CO2, when other explanations - like OP's acknowledged sleep deprivation - suffice.

Not at all, we should not judge against the OP. Both conclusions are perfectly reasonable, have precedent, and could both be true simultaneously. ‘The essence of critical thinking is suspended judgement; the essence of this suspense is inquiry to determine the nature of the problem before proceeding.’ Unless you will conduct further inquiry, you should stop at suspending judgement. It appears to me that your judgemen…

I'm not sure why you'd think staying up late and getting a headache the next day is limited to teenagers.

> Both conclusions are perfectly reasonable, have precedent, and could both be true simultaneously.

This is exactly why I object to the statement "in reality it was from co2 ppm" without evidence from a CO2 monitor.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#107

Post by arandr0x »

zeta0134 wrote: post #58
EpicEng wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We wake up students too early I agree, but... you were staying up until 1-2am playing video games. C'mon.

I also stayed up until 1-2am, regularly, starting around junior high. I performed a great many tasks, mostly teaching myself various programming languages, always at the relative expense of my concentration in the next day's classes. Two things were the primary motivating factors in developing this habit: - My parents wouldn't leave me alone for very long in the evenings, so I felt like I wouldn't get a chance to rea…

The same is true for me, however, I'm also quite productive early mornings. My "down" time is 2-10pm, so I often feel like it's a shame I have to sleep at all.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#108

Post by zeta0134 »

hwillis wrote: post #75
zeta0134 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also stayed up until 1-2am, regularly, starting around junior high. I performed a great many tasks, mostly teaching myself various programming languages, always at the relative expense of my concentration in the next day's classes. Two things were the primary motivating factors in developing this habit: - My parents wouldn't leave me alone for very long in the evenings, so I felt like I wouldn't get a chance to rea…

> My brain gets tired around 10pm like a normal person, but then it gets a "second wind" and is up happily until 3-4am, with intensely increased clarity of focus. Not saying this isn't your natural predisposition, but FWIW this is pretty much exactly what happens to everyone with a disrupted sleep schedule. Or any disrupted normal cycle, really[1]. Probably the large majority of people have experienced this. [1]: Fas…

In high school, this is probably what it was. My body wanted to fall asleep well after hours due to timing but I still had to get up at 7am for school. Being shorted on sleep sucks.

My current adult strategy is to simply plan for 7.5 hours of sleep each night; this gets me well rested consistently and doesn't appear to have any negative side effects. So long as I get the sleep in at some point, it doesn't seem to matter all that much when in the day it is. I could shift to mornings (and worked retail this way for years), but it's harder to maintain; 2am just feels "normal" to me. So, given the choice, I'll start the day later and wake up rested.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#109

Post by jjeaff »

umvi wrote: post #91
jjeaff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Research to date has shown that the circadian rhythms of adolescents are simply fundamentally different from those of adults and children," "All of the studies of adolescent sleep patterns in the United States are showing that the time at which teens generally fall asleep is biologically determined -- but the time at which they wake up is socially determined," https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/12/1812121407…

Does that mean timezones and daylight savings disrupt teenage sleep patterns and that they are unable to adapt? Should we abolish timezones and daylight savings as to not interfere with the immutable teenage sleeping patterns?

Yes, on the first one.

On timezones, doesn't matter. On daylight savings time, absolutely, though not necessarily just for teenagers but because daylight savings is idiotic and is of no benefit to 99% of the population.

Re: Around 30 percent of children in the U.S. don't get enough sleep: study

#110

Post by armatav »

planetzero wrote: post #37

I really don't think it has anything to do with the hours. Children/teenagers will try to get away with as much as they can. It's more about being rebellious. My elementary, high school, and middle school all started at different times (and my senior year of high school started much later because I completed enough credits). Regardless of how late school started, I would just stay up later, the later school started.…

Nope, it’s not rebelliousness - teens have a biological shift forward in their sleep schedule.
Post reply on HN