After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes • Hacker News Board

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#31

Post by joegahona » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

> The dangers came into focus this year after 25 cyclists were killed on city streets — the highest toll in two decades.

The "highest toll in two decades" gives some context, but I wish writers would share ratio metrics rather than absolute numbers in cases like this. I.e. the number of active cyclists on the road might be outpacing the deaths, but we don't know when you just say "25 cyclists were killed in 2019." Also, how does that stack up to the number of pedestrians killed accidentally, etc.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#32

Post by schrodinger » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #20

ptaipale wrote: post #10

Where do bike deaths happen in New York? On streets when riding straight, or in intersections? (On both, of course, but what is the distribution?)

I don't have any numbers, but my impression is that it's mostly turns, although there's also a big problem with people getting "doored" (which would easily be solved by putting bike lanes between parking lanes and sidewalks, instead of between parking lanes and automobile lanes). I was surprised to learn that left turns account for "more than twice as many serious injuries and fatalities as right turns." https://www1…

> putting bike lanes between parking lanes and sidewalks

This is how all of the new NYC bike lanes work!

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#33

Post by robbyt » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #26

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

Yes, biking in the winter isn't too bad, as long as there isn't precipitation. The winters here are fairly mild.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#34

Post by runarberg » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system.

To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so regardless of actual traffic (no cars are passing the intersection when many pedestrians arrive), you can’t really blame the pedestrians of ruling this system as stupid and opting not to follow it.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#35

Post by ch4s3 » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #26

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

It's fairly popular, and many people bike at least some year round. Citibike is quite popular for short trips.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#36

Post by maximente » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #26

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

killer is summer imo, where 2-4 months are swamplike so any professional (attire wise) is bringing a change of clothes and/or showering

but it's nice 7-8 months out of the year!

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#37

Post by product50 » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

joegahona wrote: post #31

> The dangers came into focus this year after 25 cyclists were killed on city streets — the highest toll in two decades. The "highest toll in two decades" gives some context, but I wish writers would share ratio metrics rather than absolute numbers in cases like this. I.e. the number of active cyclists on the road might be outpacing the deaths, but we don't know when you just say "25 cyclists were killed in 2019." Al…

And I wish they also tell us how many accidents do bikers cause themselves as they are notorious for not following any traffic rules - thereby endangering the live of others.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#38

Post by i_am_proteus » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street. Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

I commuted on foot in NYC for several years. The culture is generally for pedestrians to cross at intersections with no regard to the signal, but generally not to do so if it means oncoming traffic will have to brake.

Right turns at red lights are illegal in NYC, and most of the streets in the city are one-way, so for a pedestrian to cross the street against a signal with no oncoming traffic is reasonably safe.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#39

Post by Arnout » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

Pretty much the case every single time. It's how cycling infrastructure finally got taken seriously in the Netherlands too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#40

Post by viburnum » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #27

viburnum wrote: post #16

Even when America traffic engineers mean well, they screw up bike infrastructure terribly. They get all the details wrong. Generally their designs are too complicated, too cheap, and rely on paint instead of common sense about how bikes actually work. However, good design is possible. There’s even a book that explains how to do it well, in case anyone actually cares: https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/the-worlds-best-bi…

One thing I like about the newer NYC bike lanes is they put them inside of parked cars. It means you’re generally protected from traffic by a row of parked cars. And there’s a large enough buffer that you don’t have to worry about getting hit by an open door.

I know, right?! It’s sooo much nicer that way. That’s a good demonstration of how bikes are really just slightly faster pedestrians and not slow cars.