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After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

nytimes.com

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Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#11

Post by smt88 »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

Because you don't win points for prevention of hypothetical harm. See: vaccine "debate". Pro-vaccine policies saved millions of people who are alive right now, but you can't run on a pro-vaccine platform until people start dying again.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#12

Post by spicymaki »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

That is a market issue. The industry, public, and media do not believe the warnings unless there is a body count. By then it is becomes really hard to fix.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#13

Post by xyzzyz »

kylek wrote: post #3

I wonder if they can do better than $12 million per mile a la seattle[0] [0] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/12-...

Seems like they redid the whole street, sidewalks, street lamps, etc for those $12 million, and bike lane was just an excuse to do all that work. But yes, everything here is much more expensive than it should be. The "city overhead" itself was just above $1M.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#14

Post by nickles »

iamalexm wrote: post #8
pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

The fact that they have outlawed and happily tweet about confiscating e-bikes is digusting. NYC has a long ways to go.

> The fact that they have outlawed and happily tweet about confiscating e-bikes is digusting. NYC has a long ways to go.

e-bikes have been legal in NYC for 1.5 years [0]

[0] https://mashable.com/2018/04/04/electric-bicycle-nyc-ban-end...

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#15

Post by tentboy »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

Something along the lines of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

While this logic isn't best when applied to safety, that is unfortunately the way many people and companies look at safety and sometimes it takes a tragedy to get improvements.

I am a big motorsports fan, and in 1994, two drivers were killed in one weekend of Formula 1, including world champion Aryton Senna. Lots of effort went into making the sport safer after these accidents and it would be another 20 years before the next death

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#16

Post by viburnum »

Even when America traffic engineers mean well, they screw up bike infrastructure terribly. They get all the details wrong. Generally their designs are too complicated, too cheap, and rely on paint instead of common sense about how bikes actually work. However, good design is possible. There’s even a book that explains how to do it well, in case anyone actually cares:

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/the-worlds-best-bikeway-manu...

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#17

Post by choeger »

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces.

So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#18

Post by ptaipale »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

They don't. Safety is often prioritized without deaths. Safety is sometimes prioritized even without any real danger (like with the so-typical "think of the children" argument).

Priorization is difficult.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#19

Post by hsnewman »

Didn't read because of the paywall, but I question if these changes will go far because of the long winters, and where the bike lanes will be. Again, I didn't read the article, but if the 250 miles are in areas that are not in a congested area of the city they will do no good (a bike lane from Austin to Dallas is 250 miles, but would be used infrequently).

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#20

Post by Eric_WVGG »

ptaipale wrote: post #10

Where do bike deaths happen in New York? On streets when riding straight, or in intersections? (On both, of course, but what is the distribution?)

I don't have any numbers, but my impression is that it's mostly turns, although there's also a big problem with people getting "doored" (which would easily be solved by putting bike lanes between parking lanes and sidewalks, instead of between parking lanes and automobile lanes).

I was surprised to learn that left turns account for "more than twice as many serious injuries and fatalities as right turns." https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/about/leftturnstudy.shtml

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