After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes • Hacker News Board

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#21

Post by valley-green » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

“Trickle down” get off your high horse New Yorker. Nobody wants to be like your shithole city. Keep your sanctuary to yourself.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#22

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #10

Where do bike deaths happen in New York? On streets when riding straight, or in intersections? (On both, of course, but what is the distribution?)

I'm not sure what the distribution is, but definitely both. I've been hit in an intersection, funny enough, by a police officer, who just turned right, crossing into the bike lane, t-boning me. A few months ago, I saw a truck completely just run over a bicyclist, killing her on 6th ave, and not even stop [1].

Often times, protected bike lanes are still very unsafe. 6th and 1st Avenues are a prime example, where trucks park to the right of the bike lane, and unload in the bike lane, forcing cyclists to suddenly merge into aggressive traffic.

[1] https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/06/24/breaking-cyclist-kill...

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#23

Post by unlinked_dll » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

not to go all "blame the victim" here, but one thing I noticed culturally in NYC is that traffic lights are a suggestion to pedestrians. If there isn't a car directly in front of them, they'll cross the street.

Compare to LA, where people tend to wait for the signal to cross pretty consistently. That said, LA still has horrible pedestrian death statistics so who knows how much that matters.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#24

Post by amalcon » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

choeger wrote: post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

American drivers (especially in places like New York) generally just ignore 20MPH speed limits (~=30km/h).

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#25

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

choeger wrote: post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

My experience is similar. The speed differential is terrifying when you must leave a protected bike lane (which, in practice, is often).

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#26

Post by kansface » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

pwthornton wrote: post #5

This is big time for America. If our biggest city can’t show leadership on pedestrian and bicyclist safety, we can’t expect any other city to as well. New York is really lagging behind where it should be. Despite being by far the biggest American city, it is overrun with cars. Protected bike lanes, street improvements to make crossing the street safer, and dedicated bus lanes will improve the city for all New Yorkers…

How popular is biking in New York - eg, do people bike in the winter?

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#27

Post by schrodinger » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

viburnum wrote: post #16

Even when America traffic engineers mean well, they screw up bike infrastructure terribly. They get all the details wrong. Generally their designs are too complicated, too cheap, and rely on paint instead of common sense about how bikes actually work. However, good design is possible. There’s even a book that explains how to do it well, in case anyone actually cares: https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/the-worlds-best-bi…

One thing I like about the newer NYC bike lanes is they put them inside of parked cars. It means you’re generally protected from traffic by a row of parked cars. And there’s a large enough buffer that you don’t have to worry about getting hit by an open door.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#28

Post by bluGill » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #4

Why do deaths have to be the trigger to prioritize safety? Examples: Boeing, this article, and a recent HN post [0], etc. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21374525

They don't. If I make a change that prevents a death you will never know about it. If I make that change in response to a death you will hear about it, thus biasing you into thinking I don't care until there are no deaths. In reality though sometimes you need an actual situation to happen before you can imagine that failure most. Trying to guess how your widget could kill something before their are any deaths is hard. (in some cases you can look at existing widgets, but there is always something new)

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#29

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

amalcon wrote: post #24

choeger wrote: post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

American drivers (especially in places like New York) generally just ignore 20MPH speed limits (~=30km/h).

This is solvable by narrowing the lanes. Wide, comfortable lanes invite speed.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#30

Post by schrodinger » Mon, Oct 28, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

amalcon wrote: post #24

choeger wrote: post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

American drivers (especially in places like New York) generally just ignore 20MPH speed limits (~=30km/h).

In my experience, cars actually go pretty slow in NY (Manhattan at least), even when there’s not a lot of traffic. I’m usually able to easily keep up with traffic on my bike.