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The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

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Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#111

Post by agumonkey »

ritchiea wrote: post #63
agumonkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a line that is crossed, using your body for money has never ever been seen as something normal. Even accepting the reality of life complexities, broken marriages, loneliness, etc sex as a products is never praised. The only argument so far is "I should be free to use my body as I will". But probably only a minuscule amount of sex "workers" have the material and emotional comfort to choose that. So basically when…

Using your body for money isn’t normal? Using your body for money is the dominant form of labor. Manual work, factory work, mining, domestic labor, even most service jobs (you cook, you clean, you carry dishes). Undoubtedly sex work makes some people uncomfortable but it’s not because it involves the body.

Fair point but beside terminology (my bad) there's some abuse about the actual use. Your hands are made to lift and operate. If I'd make a parallel with prostitution it would be to be paid to chew rocks.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#112

Post by candiodari »

toasterlovin wrote: post #54
rjtavares wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a guess: because sex has a long history of generating babies as a byproduct.

Because sex outside of marriage undermines marriage, which is a fundamental societal institution, and the broad availability of sex for pay means it's easier for sex outside of marriage to happen.

If you read about the amounts of orphans in cities even 1 century ago, I'm guessing the babies aspect does have something to do with it.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#113

Post by candiodari »

wil421 wrote: post #94
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not most of the time. In Amsterdam, window prostitutes need to be registered with the municipality, chamber of commerce, tax authorities, and with the window operator they operate at. Minimum age is 21. This operator needs a license, which requires a municipality approved plan of operation. National police authorities do extensive research concerning prostitution because it touches key issues of organised…

You’re correct. I did some searching and most of the articles were about Dutch teens being trafficked to other places in Europe as opposed to the opposite happening.

The places that keep getting caught with actual human trafficking are hotels, usually not cheap ones, in central locations (so they can cater to "visiting" businesspeople) and they tend to not even change (meaning they catch someone imprisoning and prostituting an underage girl in Hotel X, and then 3 months later they catch another one in exactly the same spot). To me this implies that there's significant police cooperation with the abuse, otherwise why wouldn't they just go by every evening until it stops? And of course, it's the same people in the same space, so definitely the Hotel owners know and cooperate.

So in a way this supports the idea of the red light district: make it legal in a well-defined, licensed space to protect the workers. Because you can't eliminate it and the ways they get exploited in the shadows are pretty bad.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#114

Post by candiodari »

lacker wrote: post #29
kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #16

Everyone is cool from afar with sexwork until a meth head is jerking it on their doorstep. "Like, wouldn't you rather have it be regulated and legal?" Everyone is cool from afar with homeless until they're sleeping in their own doorway. "Like, why are you trying to get rid of all of these poor homeless people?" "What's the big deal, maaaaan?" they ask, "Why do you have a problem with it?" But the second the problem c…

They could operate more like marijuana sales do here in California. You have to get a license and the number of licenses in an area is limited, so there isn’t a “district”. Advertising is restricted. Most dispensaries are just bland unmarked buildings in inexpensive office or warehouse areas. It just seems possible to avoid both black markets and “vice districts”.

If you look at the red light district in Amsterdam (or for that matter, Antwerp or Brussels) they're tiny. It's one street, maybe 300-400 meters and then more subtle places for 100m around that.

A "district" these places are very much not.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#116

Post by Synaesthesia »

landryraccoon wrote: post #49
Synaesthesia wrote: post #35

One of my favourite authors is Chris Hedges. I was surprised to discover he is against decriminalisation of sex work. His arguments actually won me over. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-real-face-of-prostitut... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/prostitution-being-raped-f... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-underbelly-of-the-sex-...

I'm was unclear on something - is Chris Hedges saying that sex workers should be themselves charged with a criminal offense, or that only pimps should be? Those blog posts make it out that sex work is a crime against the sex workers; i.e., it is prostitutes that are the victims. If that is indeed the case then prostitutes should be able to go freely to the police for protection, without fear of prosecution, since the…

He’s against the Nordic model, he doesn’t wants to punish the sex workers, maybe their clients.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#117

Post by Synaesthesia »

chimeracoder wrote: post #55
Synaesthesia wrote: post #35

One of my favourite authors is Chris Hedges. I was surprised to discover he is against decriminalisation of sex work. His arguments actually won me over. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-real-face-of-prostitut... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/prostitution-being-raped-f... https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-underbelly-of-the-sex-...

> One of my favourite authors is Chris Hedges. I was surprised to discover he is against decriminalisation of sex work. His arguments actually won me over. Why do you value his arguments more than the arguments of the overwhelming majority of sex workers, who soundly reject the claims that he makes as both inaccurate and downright offensive?

I read his books and they’re based on his investigation plus the testimony of a number of sex workers.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#118

Post by ldng »

criddell wrote: post #36
ldng wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, maybe it's better than make it illegal, as long as it's Not In My Back Yard ?

Sounds right to me. I'm not sure what it's like in Amsterdam, but most cities in America have zoning laws to regulate what types of businesses can be located in a specific place.

Well, it is just displacing the problem. It does not solve anything, just hide it. Beside, wasn't the red light district precisely that, a zoning ?
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