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The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

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Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#91

Post by malvosenior »

vkou wrote: post #62
kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right - because say, there's obviously no nuance required between "rough sleepers are still people" and "let's add spikes to the building entrance so we don't have to look at rough sleepers in the morning". Every single person, without exception, you included, would be really pissed off with and do everything to get rid of a rough sleeper sleeping on under their window. Instead of adding spikes, they will call the…

I don't call the police when someone's sleeping rough by the dumpsters at the entry to my garage. Everyone needs to sleep, for fuck's sakes. If they aren't being violent, or damaging property, this isn't a police issue. If there was a social number I could call, that would get that person housed, I'd do that. But there isn't.

I think homeowners and people with families (and probably a bunch of other people) would not want a strange homeless person camping in their yard. That's totally reasonable.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#92

Post by vkou »

malvosenior wrote: post #91
vkou wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't call the police when someone's sleeping rough by the dumpsters at the entry to my garage. Everyone needs to sleep, for fuck's sakes. If they aren't being violent, or damaging property, this isn't a police issue. If there was a social number I could call, that would get that person housed, I'd do that. But there isn't.

I think homeowners and people with families (and probably a bunch of other people) would not want a strange homeless person camping in their yard. That's totally reasonable.

Then maybe they should pay for social services, instead of pushing their problems to someone else's porch.

Also, I'm not sure the set of people that this sub-thread has been railing against (Hipsters who smoke weed, and are hypocrites for tolerating the homeless, while pushing them around) has much intersection with the demographic you described!

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#93

Post by naasking »

mc32 wrote: post #88
naasking wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Initially trafficked sex workers tend younger than initially indentured migrant manual laborers, so they can be taken advantage of easier. But this isn't the same thing. You're talking about human trafficking, not sex work as a whole. If Nike trafficked a bunch of kids to set up a sweat shop in North America, we'd be upset not because shoes were being made on our continent, but because of the trafficking and exploi…

Yes two things trafficked people and people who can give consent knowingly and willingly consenting to entering this sector legally (as is possible be in NL). There is grey area where people under economic duress are taken advantage of and will ‘consent’ even if it’s unpalatable to them, if they had alternatives.

> There is grey area where people under economic duress are taken advantage of and will ‘consent’ even if it’s unpalatable to them, if they had alternatives.

I don't see how this is any different than taking any other menial, low paying job because you have to make ends meet. No one really wants to clean public toilets or work at Wendy's.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#94

Post by wil421 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #71
wil421 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time they are exploiting Eastern Europeans from poor countries. Many times they are trafficked by mafia types and have their passports/documents taken away.

Definitely not most of the time. In Amsterdam, window prostitutes need to be registered with the municipality, chamber of commerce, tax authorities, and with the window operator they operate at. Minimum age is 21. This operator needs a license, which requires a municipality approved plan of operation. National police authorities do extensive research concerning prostitution because it touches key issues of organised…

You’re correct. I did some searching and most of the articles were about Dutch teens being trafficked to other places in Europe as opposed to the opposite happening.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#95

Post by tasuki »

yread wrote: post #8
sktrdie wrote: post #2

I have been living in Amsterdam for about half a year. Met lots of locals. The red light district is not liked. It’s full of trashy people wanting to do drugs and have sex. Sure if you find those to be pleasures of life then be my guest, but the locals hate it: imagine having an entire neighborhood ruined by these kind of people, who let me tell you are not the most respectful kind. But the real issue is that none of…

Take a walk around Oude kerk on sunday morning and there will be plenty of dutch to be heard. Those ladies are also no teenagers

Very mildly put!

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#96

Post by gwbas1c »

When I went through the red light district in 2008, I didn't find it anywhere near as sketchy as half of San Francisco.

The only disappointment that I had is that Dutch weed isn't anywhere as good as Californian weed.

That being said: If I were Dutch, I wouldn't want to raise a family within biking distance of the red light district. It's practically across the street from a major train station. Dutch children have a lot of independence, and I wouldn't want an 8, 12, or 16 year old stumbling into the red light district by accident.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#97

Post by tempguy9999 »

geggam wrote: post #76
toasterlovin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if a homeless person takes a shit in your door step right in the broad daylight (actual thing that happened at my place of work several years ago). Cool with that as well?

Public restrooms are a problem in many areas. Take San Francisco. People piss and shit on the streets, you would think its because they have no couth, I almost ended up shitting on the street because no one lets you use their toilet without buying something and the friggin lines were too long. I still dont understand why folks dont let tiny houses and allocate certain parking lots to let the homeless use for sleeping…

Because I guess some significant proportion of the homeless are mentally ill and their behaviour and hygiene can be bad.

I was in a large tube station in london a few months ago and there was an overwhelming stench. The women working there were holding their noses. I was gagging. I asked where the smell was coming from, assuming it was a sewage problem. "From him" one repied, pointing to a guy limping away. He was quite a distance down the corridor, yet reeking the place out.

I think cases like those (due to severe illness) have to be handled by government or at least collectively. I don't think it's something individuals can take on.

'normal' people who've fallen on hard times, well that's entirely another matter. There but for the grace of god go any one of us.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#98

Post by toasterlovin »

geggam wrote: post #90
toasterlovin wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shitting in the bushes or behind a dumpster because you simply have to go and there's no restroom within reach is an act of necessity. Many of us have found ourselves so disposed. Shitting on someone's doorstep is not something anyone needs to do, ever.

Find me a bush on market street in the finance district.

Although I am somewhat tempted to see exactly how far you will bend over backwards to justify people shitting in doorways in broad daylight, I will resist the temptation and move on. Take care.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#99

Post by malvosenior »

vkou wrote: post #92
malvosenior wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think homeowners and people with families (and probably a bunch of other people) would not want a strange homeless person camping in their yard. That's totally reasonable.

Then maybe they should pay for social services, instead of pushing their problems to someone else's porch. Also, I'm not sure the set of people that this sub-thread has been railing against (Hipsters who smoke weed, and are hypocrites for tolerating the homeless, while pushing them around) has much intersection with the demographic you described!

> Then maybe they should pay for social services

I think people pay an extraordinary amount of their income in taxes, so yeah this is happening.

> Also, I'm not sure the set of people that this sub-thread has been railing against (Hipsters who smoke weed, and are hypocrites for tolerating the homeless, while pushing them around) has much intersection with the demographic you described!

Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't blame anyone (even a weed smoking hipster) for not wanting a stranger encamped by their front door.

Re: The Uncertain Fate of Amsterdam’s Red-Light District

#100

Post by ScottFree »

vkou wrote: post #92
malvosenior wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think homeowners and people with families (and probably a bunch of other people) would not want a strange homeless person camping in their yard. That's totally reasonable.

Then maybe they should pay for social services, instead of pushing their problems to someone else's porch. Also, I'm not sure the set of people that this sub-thread has been railing against (Hipsters who smoke weed, and are hypocrites for tolerating the homeless, while pushing them around) has much intersection with the demographic you described!

> Then maybe they should pay for social services

You mean like San Francisco does? They spend $241 million per year on the homeless. And yet, their homeless problem is the worst it's ever been.

You can't just throw money at social problems and hope they go away.

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